Mixing 5 guitars!

T

TommyBoy

New member
Hi,
I'm new to this board and I'm also pretty new to producing music, so now I have a question:

I've recorded a Metal song that consists of drums, bass, 2 rhythm guitars and 1 lead guitar (+vocals but I haven't recorded them yet).

Now I don't have many problems when just the drums, bass and rhythms guitars play together. But there's one part in the song, when there are 2 additional guitars playing. One of them is playing a melody, the other one is playing harmonies to that melody, so I've got 2 rhythm guitars (both distorted), 1 lead guitar playing a solo and then these 2 additional guitars (also both distorted) playing together. It's kinda like in the last part of Sanitarium by Metallica, when they're playing rhythm, that harmonized melody and then also the last solo kicks in.
It's just too many guitars playing together, but I think there has to be a possibility to make that sound well.

I think the main problem is that it's getting too loud that at point. While the levels are fine during the rest of the song, that part is really getting very loud. Sure, I could lower the volume on the whole song but I don't want to decrease the volume of the earlier parts of the song that much, because they seem about right.

Here's how I panned everything:

Kick and snare: center
Hi-Hats: About 40% left and right
Cymbals: About 50% left and right
Toms: Left, center, right
Bass: center
Rhythm Guitar 1: 60% left
Rhythm Guitar 2: 60% right
Lead guitar (solos): center
"Melody" guitar: 10% left (or maybe 20%)
"Harmony" guitar: 10% right (or 20%)

I've recorded everything in stereo.

So, does anyone have any hints on panning, EQing and setting levels, especially during that one part? Would be much appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
 
Hey I am a newb myself, but maybe I can offer some insight...

Try panning Rhythm Guitar 1 about 90% left and Rhythm Guitar 2 about 45% right. Then add a very very very small amount of delay to one of the tracks.. not so it is noticeable, but you will be able to tell how it helps if you have it there, rather than taking it away.

I do this sometimes and it seems to add a lot of body to the rhythm. I think the rest looks pretty good....
 
Hey man, definately record the guitar tracks in mono, unless your using stereo effects or two mics. Even so, recording to two tracks (L and R) gives you more control.

Definately try automation like that other guy mentioned. Turn down the stuff that isn't taking precident on that section. The harmony I would put pretty high. If you do it correctly the song will seem to stay balanced, but you'll be able to hear the guitar part better, try it out. Also try harder panning, it sometimes helps things not to step over each other so much. I agree with going up to almost 90% for the rhythm guitars when there is a couple more tracks which probably are higher priority.

Also, since it's a metal song, try rolling off the low end of some of the guitar and maybe the bass, it may help clear things up a bit.

Remember to check your tracks in mono for phase issues.
 
Listen to Def Leopard's Pyromania or Hysteria and try to figure out how many guitar tracks are on it.

Uh, about 80 of them.

One trick to having lots of guitar tracks is to make sure that the rhythm and tone are not cluttered and are clearly defined.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the advice so far.

I'm definitely gonna try that automation-thing. So far I haven't experimented a lot with changing the level of a track during a song. For example, I've always had the rhythm guitar playing at the same level throughout the whole song, because I thought it sounds strange when the volume of a certain track suddenly changes. I might've tried that once but since it didn't fit the mix in that situation I probably came to the conclusion that changing track volumes during a song doesn't work..

To the guys who asked me about mono/stereo:
I'm using a POD 2.0 (some of you guys will probably scream in horror now, but I've heard some brilliant home recordings that were made with a POD) and I have both of its outputs (L+R) connected to the soundcard. And in CoolEdit Pro (or Cubase which I also own) I set the track recording option to "stereo".

So, what if I record in mono now.. do I have to record rhythm guitar A while 2 mono tracks are recording it simultaneously and then do the same thing with rhythm guitar B? And how would I pan them? As I said, I panned the Rhythm Guitar A stereo track to 60% left and the Rhythm Guitar B stereo track to 60% right (according to some of your tips I should pan them a little further anyway), so how would I do that with the 4 resulting mono tracks?
By the way, the two rhythm guitars aren't playing exactly the same thing, so it's not just to thicken the rhythm "wall".

Thanks for your help!
 
Unless you are running the guitar through a stereo effect, you aren't recording in stereo, just the same thing on two tracks. For mono recording, one instrument, one track. You can still pan your mono tracks. I would try solo guitar in the center, pan rhythm tracks until you get good separation, maybe 30%, and then melody parts out farther, maybe 60%. That will give you good separation between solo and melody parts.
 
One of the difficulties in having so many guitar tracks is the desire to want to hear them all. Unfortunately, when you have a whole lot going on, it is difficult to clearly define 5 guitar parts along with drums, bass, vox, etc. One thing you may look to do is find the guitar part that you want to really stand out at any point in the song and use the other tracks to enhance the main guitar part. For instance, if there is a lead part going on, push it to the front and pull the other parts (rhythm, melody, harmony) back to the place where they support, but do not take away from, the lead part. Once the lead is done, bring the rhythm back up and use the melody and harmony parts to enhance the rhythm etc.

Trying to cram it all in and hear all the parts all the time is difficult, if not impossible to do well. Sometimes less is more. Another thing to do is to cut different frequencies on the various guitar parts so that each part takes up less space in the frequency spectrum and therefore is better heard in the overall mix. Hope this helps.

Good luck.
 
Good points, Starch. Other things to consider are, using differant guitar and amp combinations for the parts, so you get differant sounds, that will work together without having to rely as much on eqing. Also, if the composition is well though out, you won't be fighting as much. For example, have the rhythm guitars playing chords down low on the neck, melody guitars mid neck and lead in the higher positions.
 
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