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Thread: Metering in digital domain

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    offcenter2005 ---- this ^^^^ is key.

    That's what we were talking about earlier..."igoring" the digital levels and doing all the level setting at the analog front end.

    Also...keep in mind that you have the POD level driving your A&H preamp, and of course your guitar driving the POD input....so that should be set right too.
    It's not quite the same as a mic plugged into the A&H pre amp and going to the converter Line input.

    Try to always minimize the number of gain stages/level conversions you have to go through with your tracking signal chain.
    Would line 6 have an output spec or should i just experiment till it sounds good on with the pod?
    I7 2600k sandy bridge, 16gb corsair vengeance low pro ram, RME HDSPe Raydat, Behringer ada8000's, crucial m4 128gb ssd, two 1tb caviar black sata III 6gb/s - 64mb cache, Windows 7 pro 64 bit, Sonar x1 producer expanded, FL studio 9 producer,

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    Check their site.
    I was just pointing out that you can screw up a level before the pre too.

    Like if you push a mic into distortion with too loud a signal...after that it doesn't matter, the damage is already done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by offcenter2005 View Post
    There is the option to also change pre or post eq i guess. So just change the pre? What would this do to help? I understand pre and post but with a preamp im not sure. Thanks.
    My preference for direct outputs is post-eq and pre-fader. Back in the old days of tape most mixers' direct outs were wired post-fader so you could do fader rides to tape, but now that can all be done better in the DAW. I still like having some eq on the inputs though I don't automatically use it on everything. If you make your direct outs pre-eq you can eq for the monitor mix but record flat.

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    I think i have enough to go on now. You guys have been very helpful.
    I7 2600k sandy bridge, 16gb corsair vengeance low pro ram, RME HDSPe Raydat, Behringer ada8000's, crucial m4 128gb ssd, two 1tb caviar black sata III 6gb/s - 64mb cache, Windows 7 pro 64 bit, Sonar x1 producer expanded, FL studio 9 producer,

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    Ok,

    If no one minds, I wouldn't mind jumping in to check my understanding of a couple things I *think* I've learned from this.

    1. Don't stress on the digital meters, and set levels from the anolog front end. So I should be able to set my external pre how I'd like it to be, as long as I'm not clipping it, and record that signal with little to no worry about what my digital meters, or track meters show? If the track meters are clipping, I can just drop fader level to rectify it with no damage done. Correct? FYI, I'm using a p-solo, into an input channel on a motu 828mk3. I currently check the Motu input level with it's proprietary cuemix software. As long as that seems ok, (I've never concerned myself with Logics track meters while tracking), am I golden? If I'm hitting the Motu too hard, I should be able to adjust the trim within the motu software, rather than back the gain off my preamp, no?

    2. Hypothetically, every individual track could be above 0dbfs, and as long as the Master was dropped below 0dbfs, no harm would be done on the DA conversion. True?

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Rhino View Post
    If I'm hitting the Motu too hard, I should be able to adjust the trim within the motu software, rather than back the gain off my preamp, no?
    Adjusting a level in the MOTU software most likely affects the signal once it's already digital. At that point it's too late to prevent clipping. And if you're adjusting in Cuemix you're only changing a monitor mix level. I would leave any software level controls in the record path at their default/unity gain settings.

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    I've found, through surruptitous research, that most folk I've enountered don't actually relate the pudding to eating & therefor proving that it's a goodun'.
    Most of the above believe that it's a stock phrase that emphasises that something is patently good & that the statement & the thing's existence are good enough - that proof is not required.
    Next time you hear the paraphrase uttered ask for a slice & watch/listen to the responses. Then ask for it with some warm custard and maybe a little double cream to cover up any possible failings & walk away.
    In terms of the thread's disussion - the proof as Ethan has represented so well, is emperical but taste, perception & experience naturally alter or distort that proof to satisfy deeper needs.

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    Might be an issue with your preamps actually. Some preamps sound much much better when they are almost clipping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahamrunsran View Post
    Some preamps sound much much better when they are almost clipping.
    I agree.

    There are times when it's all about pristine clarity and all that...but I find that I generally like the sound better when the pres are working a bit. When I run them very low/safe, yeah it's all nice-n-clean...but sometimes kinda' sterile/"flat".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Rhino View Post
    1. Don't stress on the digital meters, and set levels from the anolog front end. So I should be able to set my external pre how I'd like it to be, as long as I'm not clipping it, and record that signal with little to no worry about what my digital meters, or track meters show?
    Yes, and this is what Miroslav has been saying. It's also the way my gear is set up. My Mackie mixer's preamps output about +5 dBu when my sound card's input reaches 0 dBFS. So I leave those levels alone and use only the mixer's preamp gain to set record levels. IMO this is the best way to configure a mixer and sound card, though the 0dBFS level could be anything reasonable up to maybe +10dBu or possibly higher depending on the specific preamp and converter. The maximum levels you can use with acceptably low distortion is a common spec for preamps and converters. Most handle a very wide range, so you don't have to worry about it!

    2. Hypothetically, every individual track could be above 0dbfs, and as long as the Master was dropped below 0dbfs, no harm would be done on the DA conversion. True?
    Yes, exactly. Though a single track Wave file can never be above 0 dBFS or the file would by definition be distorted. But you can send a track through plug-ins such that the plug-ins add gain pushing to signal above 0 dBFS with no problem, as long as the level is reduced somewhere in the chain before the final bus output. Again, this is one huge advantage of 32-bit FP math used by most modern DAWs.

    --Ethan

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