LPF/HPF on 'lectric geetars...

[Schwarzenyaeger]

Leaving drum mics set up and indiscriminately high passing a track on every mix whether it needs it or not are not the same thing.

But a mic setup is really just an EQ and panning. Wouldn't leaving it set up be the same thing as using the same EQ settings on every guitar track whether it needs it or not?
If I used a D112 in my kick on every song, then I'm boosting the lows and highs and scooping the mids the exact same way every single time.

 

[Greg_L]

But a mic setup is really just an EQ and panning. Wouldn't leaving it set up be the same thing as using the same EQ settings on every guitar track whether it needs it or not?
If I used a D112 in my kick on every song, then I'm boosting the lows and highs and scooping the mids the exact same way every single time.

No you aren't because it's always different, especially with drums. I've yet to meet anyone that records real drums successfully that says they do the same thing to every single drum, every single time, on every single mix.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

Yeah but in the example the drum set was set up and left that way. Which is obviously a strawman in the first place.

In the same strawmanny vein, I don't think that anybody HPFs their guitars every time just because. They will know that it could sound better so they'll try it out and then slide up and down until they find something that they like. I'll try ever technique I know on a track just to see if something could make it sound better. I'm not going to let what worked last time make me exclude an option from what could work this time, you know?



In another context, I think that audio people use way too many strawmen to explain why their way of doing things is superior. If I see another documentary about a band recording a CD and the first sentence by the engineer is "We decided to use analogue equipment instead of Pro Tools like you do nowadays because of warmth/natural/live performance/whatever" I'm going to sacrifice a goat. By now I get the feeling that nobody actually uses Pro Tools besides having it installed on their PC to show the camera that they don't use it.

 

[Greg_L]

I don't think that anybody HPFs their guitars every time just because.

I do. I've read several posts from several people over the years at this very site saying things along the lines of "high pass everything". I've read many posts from people looking for compressor settings before they've even recorded a vocal track. People do, or want to do, what they think they're supposed to do without even actually thinking about it. No one tries anything anymore. they look for the quick answer and just apply it without any experimentation of their own. Don't ever underestimate the mindless ruts and routines of home recorders making home recordings. They're always looking for a way to cut a corner or fix something in the mix.

 

[Armistice]

What I don't do, is put a HP on a track because "I don't hear anything down there so it won't hurt to put it there".

Neither do I - I do it because I have too much boom in the guitar, for one reason or another, and I need to reduce it to make the overall whole more pleasing. But because there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the track, I'm not going to go back to the amp and dial down the bass and play it again when I can get the same effect by dialing down the bass on my DAW - HPF/shelf/notch, whatever - without playing it again.

Especially I'm not going to do this because the amp and mic are no longer set up and it's late and I live in an apartment and can't be rocking out at 10pm... so this time I'll live with the slightly less pure approach of in-DAW tweak of the EQ...

I make a note to record with less bass next time. It's an iterative thing. I'll get there one day, perfection, that is...

Perhaps "automatically" is a better word than "default"...

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

I do. I've read several posts from several people over the years at this very site saying things along the lines of "high pass everything". I've read many posts from people looking for compressor settings before they've even recorded a vocal track. People do, or want to do, what they think they're supposed to do without even actually thinking about it. No one tries anything anymore. they look for the quick answer and just apply it without any experimentation of their own. Don't ever underestimate the mindless ruts and routines of home recorders making home recordings. They're always looking for a way to cut a corner or fix something in the mix.

Yeah but these people are total nubs. You should be happy that they're not grounding their equipment to themselves
People say a lot of dumb stuff when they're knew to something. Have you ever tried to learn a new language? You sound like a labotomized monkey for the first years. But you gotta go through that to appreciate the art.

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah but these people are total nubs. You should be happy that they're not grounding their equipment to themselves
People say a lot of dumb stuff when they're knew to something. Have you ever tried to learn a new language? You sound like a labotomized monkey for the first years. But you gotta go through that to appreciate the art.

I know lots of languages, but I high pass the words I don't use very much.

 

[minerman]

Ok, I'll bite....I'm very guilty of low/high-passing just about all of my guitar tracks in my songs that I've finished...This was when I was using ampsims, & before I started using real amps/cabs/mics too, so I guess I'm not guilty of doing it "just because I thought I was supposed to", I did it to remove fizz (low-pass), & to try to make my guitars sit better with the bass (high-pass)...does that count???

I still might do the lp/hp thing on my guitars now, but only if I think they need it, I'm trying very hard to get my sounds right at the source now, & have been for a pretty good while....hopefully, this will reflect in my recordings/songs too....

 

[kindafishy]

Yeah but in the example the drum set was set up and left that way. Which is obviously a strawman in the first place.

In the same strawmanny vein, I don't think that anybody HPFs their guitars every time just because. They will know that it could sound better so they'll try it out and then slide up and down until they find something that they like. I'll try ever technique I know on a track just to see if something could make it sound better. I'm not going to let what worked last time make me exclude an option from what could work this time, you know?

...

I would be willing to bet good money that there are hundreds if not thousands of amateur mixers who HP every single track, and not only guitars, just because they have seen that is the way to do it. Users telling other users that this is a good mix practice is something I have seen over and over again.

HP itself is not bad at all, neither is exploring techniques for improving tracks. That is never a problem. The problem is that amateur mixers do these things without even evaluating whether or not it is needed.

I'm not at all implying that you do this, but many people do.

I know this beyond any doubt because that was me a few years ago, and I did that sort of thing because in my insatiable quest for mixing knowledge, I either blindly took or misinterpreted advice that resulted in me mixing that way routinely. I still see these types of conversations all the time.

 

[kindafishy]

Neither do I - I do it because I have too much boom in the guitar, for one reason or another, and I need to reduce it to make the overall whole more pleasing. But because there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the track, I'm not going to go back to the amp and dial down the bass and play it again when I can get the same effect by dialing down the bass on my DAW - HPF/shelf/notch, whatever - without playing it again.

Especially I'm not going to do this because the amp and mic are no longer set up and it's late and I live in an apartment and can't be rocking out at 10pm... so this time I'll live with the slightly less pure approach of in-DAW tweak of the EQ...

I make a note to record with less bass next time. It's an iterative thing. I'll get there one day, perfection, that is...

Perhaps "automatically" is a better word than "default"...

...and that makes perfect sense and sets a great example, I think.

 

[witzendoz]

There is High Pass and there is low shelf Realy the same thing however what I mean by that is that the low shelf you use depends on the frequency it shelves at, some do 60hz, some 100hz some 120hz etc and the best ones are the adjustable ones (mainly talking about consoles here as plug ins are nearly all adjustable). Solo the track and bring up the shelf until you hear it biting into the sound too much then thats it mud gone sound still OK.

Alan.

 

[mixsit]

Basically the dif would be if you like the shape or balance of the area in question you might try the shelf- and pull that section down (or up) 'as is'. HP implies it's more of a 'you want to trim it off.
Although they can in effect be similar. In that if there's too much low end for example but it's already diminishing as it gets lower 'naturally (a lot of our guitar mics' do that don't they), the shelf can just begin this 'droop earlier, and/or from a higher point as well.

 

[BroKen_H]

It still boils down to doing what's right for your mix. I don't think anybody goes out and just auto sets HPF to 300Hz on every guitar track. I think we started with a couple of us saying that "lately" we've been coming up with some stuff that sounds better that way because of huge amounts of layering (8+ guitar layers).
I've also realized from this discussion that I sometimes try to make mediocre sounds sound better instead of re-tracking. Something I'm going to strive to fix.
But I have heard a lot of "HP everything" and "my best friend is a HPF" comments here as well, and it gets your attention if you're not exactly sure, so yeah, we that are in the newb to intermediates tend to get bad habits if it's not corrected.
It still amazes me how much better my mixes sound (and how much easier they are to get there) over where I was last year...Thanks to everyone here for that!

 

[fireflyva]

It still boils down to doing what's right for your mix. I don't think anybody goes out and just auto sets HPF to 300Hz on every guitar track. I think we started with a couple of us saying that "lately" we've been coming up with some stuff that sounds better that way because of huge amounts of layering (8+ guitar layers).
I've also realized from this discussion that I sometimes try to make mediocre sounds sound better instead of re-tracking. Something I'm going to strive to fix.
But I have heard a lot of "HP everything" and "my best friend is a HPF" comments here as well, and it gets your attention if you're not exactly sure, so yeah, we that are in the newb to intermediates tend to get bad habits if it's not corrected.
It still amazes me how much better my mixes sound (and how much easier they are to get there) over where I was last year...Thanks to everyone here for that!

That was a nice way to end this thread, Broken_H.

 

[kindafishy]

That was a nice way to end this thread, Broken_H.

Gah! He didn't end the thread, you did!

Double Gah! Now I did!