Low End Mixing advice

Bruthish

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
I have been mixing for awhile off and on. By no means PRO, just amateur status. However, I have a hard time grasping the concept of how much low end to put into a song.

For example, I can mix a song to sound great to my ears and it sounds great in the car and on my system. When I play it on my cheap computer monitors w/sub, the low end(kick and bass) overwhelms the systems and sounds like hell. However, any commercial track I play sounds good on it. So the obvious adjustment would be to kick out some of the low end until it stops bottoming out the sub. But....when I do that the track is thin and lacks that bottom in comparison to the commercial tracks.

Is there any tricks or tips to magically get a great low end without overloading? I do research and just not getting clear answers.

Thanks
 
Take some of those commercial mixes that you are playing on your computer monitors w/sub, that sound good you...
...and them play them through your mixing/monitoring system...and then compare them to your mixes there.
See if you can hear differences, and then try and adjust your mixes using those commercial references.
 
I've got more questions than answers. How does the bass sound soloed? Could that have a lot of messy overtones or undertones muddying the sound? Damping the bass strings at the bridge really clears a lot of that up. Leaves you with a tighter low end.

Or maybe this isn't the source of your problem. Can you post a clip?
 
Can't post anything right now as I am at work. I generally play with fingers so muting at the bridge may not be an option but will certainly try. I can see where muddiness can occur.
 
No problem. I dug out the box my AT2020 mic came in. The mic came inserted into a big foam block. I cut the end off that block of foam and taped it over the strings
at the bridge of my bass using duct tape (it won't come loose). Run the tape as you see it here so it won't pull the ends of the foam down (I still have to adjust mine a little).
The foam should be loosely fitted to the strings, not pushed down hard.

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spantini said:
No problem. I dug out the box my AT2020 mic came in. The mic came inserted into a big foam block. I cut the end off that block of foam and taped it over the strings
at the bridge of my bass using duct tape (it won't come loose). Run the tape as you see it here so it won't pull the ends of the foam down (I still have to adjust mine a little).
The foam should be loosely fitted to the strings, not pushed down hard.
Click to expand...

Have you ever used or seen someone use cloth on the bass between the strings and the fretboard when recording? I saw it and can't remember where. Supposedly it helps with string buzz and fret clicking.
 
I like to take out a little 350ish from my kicks, and I boost a little around 60ish. I'll then hi-pass the bass just above that, around 70, with a gentle slope. I like to hi-pass all the guitars and synths around 100, along with the vocals. This way, the only things living beneath 80 or so is your kick and bass. Using a very narrow Q, I'll then find the lo-mid frequency in the bass that rumbles way too much; it's usually anywhere from 120-220, remove a db or two of this and you'll tighten up your low end, compression alone doesn't always fix this. All that's left now is making sure the level's right. I lo-pass the bass a lot, too, sometimes as low as 6-8K.

Also make sure your compression release times on your drum bus/drum parallel bus/room mics isn't too fast; this can cause unwanted rumble sometimes (you might need to solo them to hear it). I usually hi-pass my rooms a bit higher, too, around 200, sometimes higher.

And believe it or not, make sure to hi-pass your hi-hats, even they can have an un-noticeable rumble that adds to the overall low end. Anything under 200-300 is not needed, so make sure to roll it off.

All of these things can add up and lead to a rumble in your low end that you might not notice until you listen in other environments.

Another trick I use often is to parallel compress the bass, compress it hard with an 1176, and just tuck it in underneath, so you only hear the tiniest increase in volume when un-muted. Medium attack, medium release. This helps to even out notes just a little more, and adds energy. Then I also send a copy of the kick to it, but put the kick send at about -5, so it doesn't add too much overall volume to your kick sound. It'll be just enough to "duck" the bass a very tiny bit every time the kick hits. Un-noticeable really in the mix, it's only doing it to your bass parallel track, but really helps the kick to punch through.

Another thing I do often is take out a tiny bit of 400 on my mixbus, just a db or two at most. This is where "woofyness" builds up, and just a db or two rolled off can make a big overall difference in clarity on your whole mix. Every song is different though, just need to experiment.
 
Bruthish said:
Have you ever used or seen someone use cloth on the bass between the strings and the fretboard when recording? I saw it and can't remember where. Supposedly it helps with string buzz and fret clicking.
Click to expand...

I've seen girl's scrunchies hair bands used above and below the nut at the head. Above the nut for slight damping of overtones, and below (over the fretboard and strings) muting the open strings when two-handed string tapping. I haven't tried either technique, so no comment there. Maybe someone slipped one of these under the strings.. or maybe they used a sport wrist band. It's an idea.

Or.. there's the "authentic" fret wraps : FretWraps™ String Muters (3-Pack) - Gruv Gear | Krane

And be sure to follow all the excellent advice from @miroslav, @JohnnyAmato, and everyone else here.
 
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Try sweeping a high pass filter up from 20Hz, first on the whole mix, then on the LF elements. I suggest this more for diagnostics than as a solution, but it might end up helping.
 
miroslav said:
Take some of those commercial mixes that you are playing on your computer monitors w/sub, that sound good you...
...and them play them through your mixing/monitoring system...and then compare them to your mixes there.
See if you can hear differences, and then try and adjust your mixes using those commercial references.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^^

Your monitors are obviously lacking in the low frequencies that your sub reproduces, so you have no idea what's happening 'down there' when mixing. Try using a spectrum analyzer.
 
Slightly related, and certainly a piece of promotional stuff for iZotope's Neutron product, but the techniques here are something that can be done with standard plugins, though a lot more manual intervention. (These videos are going to get me upgrading sooner or later, I admit.)

YouTube

P.S. iZotope's blog/article link: 7 Tips for Mixing the Low End
 
Those guys already got to me with music production pack. Waves.com also has a huge library of helpful articles for just about anything sound related:Tags | Waves
 
keith.rogers said:
Slightly related, and certainly a piece of promotional stuff for iZotope's Neutron product, but the techniques here are something that can be done with standard plugins, though a lot more manual intervention. (These videos are going to get me upgrading sooner or later, I admit.)

YouTube

P.S. iZotope's blog/article link: 7 Tips for Mixing the Low End
Click to expand...

Hmmm....Have used Izotope 'Ozone 4' software years ago when I was young and dumb. That software seemed to be the best thing ever. Until the realization that it was more directed towards fixing mixes. Well, I thought it was anyway.

Many moons later I found that acoustically treating my room, upgrading my monitors and learning to use my ears was the best investment. Way more productive than just software fixes...


I do find this 'Neutron' thing quite interesting...

I see myself purchasing another vst that I use a few times and forget about. But just maybe... lol!
 
keith.rogers said:
Slightly related, and certainly a piece of promotional stuff for iZotope's Neutron product, but the techniques here are something that can be done with standard plugins, though a lot more manual intervention. (These videos are going to get me upgrading sooner or later, I admit.)

YouTube

P.S. iZotope's blog/article link: 7 Tips for Mixing the Low End
Click to expand...

Interesting, although his hi=pass on the bass killed the first note the bass was playing,, lost all its low end.
 
mjbphotos said:
Interesting, although his hi=pass on the bass killed the first note the bass was playing,, lost all its low end.
Click to expand...
Well, you have to make some allowance for the compression that has no doubt occurred in the whole upload/streaming part (i.e., we probably weren't hearing the real thing), but I think that was the point, really, i.e., there were two instruments that were feeding content/energy into the very low end, and that's going to end badly, unless one of them is moved out of the way. I mean, those frequencies on the bottom string and below are hardly musical IMO, so kick drum or bass, who cares! ;) Maybe this was more drastic for effect, but it seemed to be pretty much a standard move I thought.

The automatically linked boosts/cuts on the two different tracks was something I really was intrigued by (laziness gene).
 
keith.rogers said:
Well, you have to make some allowance for the compression that has no doubt occurred in the whole upload/streaming part (i.e., we probably weren't hearing the real thing), but I think that was the point, really, i.e., there were two instruments that were feeding content/energy into the very low end, and that's going to end badly, unless one of them is moved out of the way. I mean, those frequencies on the bottom string and below are hardly musical IMO, so kick drum or bass, who cares! ;) Maybe this was more drastic for effect, but it seemed to be pretty much a standard move I thought.

The automatically linked boosts/cuts on the two different tracks was something I really was intrigued by (laziness gene).
Click to expand...

Ha! Yeah, there is the laziness gene... :)

Actually for me it is the latest toy gene. I always go back to just using my ears. But always willing to waste some cash on a new plugin just to see if it will save me some time.

Download, authorization, experimentation, happy time, then denial of the time and subsequent realization I just wasted money again.... More wasted time... lol

There have been many plugs that I don't feel I wasted money on though.

Trial by fire I suppose....
 
helloradio said:
You'd be very surprised, a lot of professional engineers are very affordable!
Click to expand...

They may be affordable, but that kinda defeats the purpose of wanting to learn. I don't want to have to send all my music out to someone to mix, when its just a hobby for me.
 
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