Line/Instrument

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Well, I've been having some trouble getting a good sound out of my guitar recordings on my current project. I've been at it for a few days, wondering why I can't mix these guitars so well this time around. Didn't know if it was in my head or if I've simply heard it too many times now.

The clean guitars seemed really springy and popped quite a bit, and the overdriven rhythms seemed more gainey than usual, less full and more bright. Then I noticed that my switch on the 2i2 was set to "line" instead of instrument. Not sure how/why. Maybe I toggled it when I cleaned the desk last week.

Would using the interface in line mode cause these issues, or any at all in regards to tone? Or is it just, basically, just a volume problem? I'm pondering rerecording these guitar parts, but there are quite a few and I'd rather not if it isn't going to make a difference. And no, I don't want to just "try it and see"... :) I'm lazy.

edit: the interface did not clip while recording these guitar parts. fyi. Also, I use a Micro-DI to decrease guitar gain by 15db. The guitar will clip on the lowest volume pot position without it (that's a solved solution. had a thread on it last year sometime. been good since this line dilemma.)
 
I assume this difference is due to the different type amplification that the Focusrite imparts by having the switch set to a different setting. Instrument level is not line level, and it still needs amplification to get it there. Essentially, by switching the setting, you’ve switched the type of amplification used, and as a result, it sounds different—I assume the instrument setting sounds better, yeah?
 
CrowsofFritz said:
...I assume the instrument setting sounds better, yeah?
Click to expand...

That is what I am asking, dude. In general, in principle, would line give an unpleasant tone for electric guitar, and might that be my issue with the guitars in my current project...is that a possibility, or is the difference between the two unrelated to tone.
 
andrushkiwt said:
That is what I am asking, dude. In general, in principle, would line give an unpleasant tone for electric guitar, and might that be my issue with the guitars in my current project...is that a possibility, or is the difference between the two unrelated to tone.
Click to expand...

Like I said, the amplification is different on the two settings, so yes, having a different setting will yield a different tone.

What line level signal is for is if you were to plug your guitar into an external amplifier and then take the signal out of the amp and plug it in the Focusrite at line. When you’re turning up the gain on line level and it’s plugged in straight from the guitar, you’re turning it up without using the type of amplification that Focusrite intended for you to use when plugging in direct.

Yes, the tone, in general, will be more unpleasant if you plug in your guitar direct and use line instead of instrument.
 
CrowsofFritz said:
...Yes, the tone, in general, will be more unpleasant if you plug in your guitar direct and use line instead of instrument.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll switch it over and rerecord tomorrow, see if that fixes the issue. There was just something off about the guitars, and I couldn't put my finger on it. Must have spent two hours cycling through amp sims and IR cabs trying to find something that sounded good.

This is probably the issue.
 
"Also, I use a Micro-DI to decrease guitar gain by 15db."
That means you are using the microphone, XLR input so all talk of "Instrument input" is just confusing.

You are also correct in that the 2i2s had poor instrument input headroom, especially the very early ones.

Dave.
 
If you're entering the interface via XLR cable then the inst/line switch should have zero effect.
If you're entering via TS or TRS cable, then that switch will have effect.
 
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Steenamaroo said:
If you're entering the interface via XLR cable then the mic/line switch should have zero effect.
If you're entering via TS or TRS cable, then that switch will have effect.
Click to expand...

He asked about instrument vs line, though, not mic vs line.
 
That's a typo. Thanks.


If you're entering the interface via XLR cable then the inst/line switch should have zero effect.
If you're entering via TS or TRS cable, then that switch will have effect.
 
ecc83 said:
Ah! Got you. But in any case it seems OP is going into the mic input?
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Ha. Missed that. So, yeah, if he's taking an XLR from the DI then the combo jack is not going to be paying any attention to the switch setting. Have to read more closely!
 
ecc83 said:
Yes but then he muddies the waters by mentioning a DI box with a 15dB loss!

Dave.
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That DI box can add or subtract 15db. My guess is he plugged things into line level, it was too hot, so he used the -15db pad to lower. I don't know the 2i2 specifically, but most FRs act as a DI box as well, so there could be some redundancy with that DI Box in the chain.

He should just plug the guitar into instrument level, retrack, and all problems should be solved. If something is still too hot he could turn on the pad in the FR Mix Control software.

To answer his original question personally I think that would change the sound for the worse (probably more thin and brittle) and cause unpleasant impedance changes (again probably toward the brighter spectrum). I don't know the technical reasons for all this, but that's been my anecdotal experience having made some of these errors along the way.
 
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ecc83 said:
Yes but then he muddies the waters by mentioning a DI box with a 15dB loss!

Dave.
Click to expand...

It's not "muddying the waters", it's what's actually occurring and relevant to the issue, possibly. Maybe your thoughts are muddied, but that's not my problem, is it? :) The DI was necessary.

Here's the chain:

2i2 -> XLR -> Micro DI -> 1/4" -> guitar

So, again, yes I'm using an XLR, which I believe prompts the 2i2 to recognize it as a mic and change some settings inside. The switch is set to "line" out of the options "line/instrument". There is no "mic" setting, as plugging in an XLR is all you need for "mic" option.

Then, it seems there's no difference to the setting since I'm using XLR, right? The tone shouldn't change no matter what it's set to?

I'm using the DI box because the gain is too hot on the Gibson without it. This is a common/known issue with this interface, at least on google searches.


I now had time to test it out... there is no noticeable difference in tone between line/inst settings with the XLR plugged into the interface. The XLR must negate the other two options completely, even though 1/4" is used later down the signal.
 
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Steenamaroo said:
Correct. ^
Click to expand...

So why mention "Line" and "Instrument" inputs at all?

Regarding Nola's point as to input impedances affecting guitar sound? Several reasons come to mind...

"Lies, damned lies and SPECIFICATIONS"! Manufacturers are notoriously flaky about such matters and often, it seems to me, print what the punter expects to see! "One meg Ohm " might be accurate (+ or - 1%) but it might be closer to 1m5 or 680k.

A valve input stage should be close to a meg (often 1,000,068 Ohms in fact) but there will also be a significant shunt capacitance of at least 120puff. This capacitance, added to that of the cable can "tune" a pickup, especially the higher inductance humbuckers, and change the characteristics and not only just a 'top chop', it can be more complex than that.

Solid state inputs can be almost purely resistive but there is often an RC network that acts as an RFI stop. Sometimes a small inductor and such components will have some effect on the sound.

SS inputs are usually ICs but sometimes great play is made of the use of a "discrete FET" ? These are not as linear as op amps and you might like the distortion but if not you are stuck with it!

Lastly, SOME manufacturers decide FOR you that you want a DI input with a certain "tone" and include THEIR idea of the voicing you shall have. Since that voicing can only be 'right' for one set of ears and one set of pickups my response is "Bloody cheek!"

Dave.
 
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