andrushkiwt
Well-known member
I have a feeling I already know the answer, but I'll toss it out there to see what you guys think. Maybe there's another way I haven't thought of yet. Here's the deal:
Current project is about ready to go, on the mixing end. Of course, wanting to learn to do most things by myself, I'm applying a little master bus touchups, like always. Just like my mixing abilities, I think this is also improving. I've been lucky enough to have some of best (imo) mastering folks around help me out privately over the last couple of years, and I'm very grateful for everyone's time and contributions. I know they get paid to do this, and time spent helping me is possibly money lost for them- so I'm extremely thankful for those folks.
Now, one issue I've realized lately, and sure enough is proving to be an obstacle in my current track, is squeezing out/inching out some db's on the limiter, for general folks benefit. No - I do not want it squashed or crushed beyond recognition, I just want to get those extra db's to match nicely following a commercially produced track.
Here's the exact problem, and your response to this post will tell me if you've continued reading or if you stopped above and took this as a general "raising volume/limiting" question. My fault, I suppose, for rambling on too long without getting to exact issue - the snare. Forget what volume and measurement we're dealing with for a moment, because we'll get caught up in which methods are best, applicable, and troublesome, and just assume there's a snare that's causing too many peaks.
Muting the snare will allow me to raise my limiter about 10db of input, with its threshold at -1. With the snare engaged, and the limiter at 8db input, same threshold, I will get about 4-5 db of gain reduction. The snare itself is rather heavily compressed - 1176 style with med A and R. Then, further, the drums are compressed within Superior D's plugin, then again in the DAW instrument (drum) channel, again with an 1176 at med settings. Then, the whole tune is running through two slight compression plugs, API first then Tokelnikov second, the first one acting quicker than the second, but really, they both have minimal gain reduction happening. I'm talking 1-2 db's at most. Don't freak out and think that because there's two compressors in tandem that insane compression is happening. It's not, it's very minimal. After those two comes the limiter.
When I examine the individual snare hits in the MIDI file, yes, I can adjust them, be it velocity or timing. Moving the snare blobs in small increments forward and backward can drastically change how the limiter reacts at that moment of the song - the its velocity. The goal, or train of thought, in doing it this way is that I don't have to mess with the snare's mixing properties, which I really like, and I can just move that midi blob until the master limiter doesn't go crazy. But it takes a long time, and I have to continually rewind the track and play it from the beginning since the limiter is responding to everything happening just before it, and what happens before that snare hit affects how that snare hit is triggering the limiter.
So, I've already applied some snare compression, drum channel compression, master compression, and limiting. But the snare is still poking out too much. This is MIDI, so I can adjust timing and velocity. But it's tedious and seems to be random, as to whether moving the snare blob this way or that will either increase the limiters reduction (bad) or decrease its reduction (good). I want the limiter doing BARELY any reduction, but at the same time, I want to be able to raise the overall volume another couple db's. The snare is making that difficult, and, like I said, moving the hits around seems to be random as to how it affects the limiter. Sometimes moving the snare slightly forward decreases reduction, sometimes it raises it. Same with moving it slightly backwards. The other property I can adjust (just realized) is the length of the hit - quick, snapping-like hit, or a slower, drawn out hit. Again, both seem to affect the limiter randomly.
My best guess is that simply lowering the velocity of the snare, and compressing it more will be the answer to my limiter issue. It's just weird that moving it milliseconds changes the limiters' reaction so drastically. It's like the exact combination of everything happening at that exact moment in the song is pushing it over the edge, even if the snare is literally quieter.
It's a pain. How are you guys approaching your snares and their effect on your limiters? If you use one, to begin with.
Current project is about ready to go, on the mixing end. Of course, wanting to learn to do most things by myself, I'm applying a little master bus touchups, like always. Just like my mixing abilities, I think this is also improving. I've been lucky enough to have some of best (imo) mastering folks around help me out privately over the last couple of years, and I'm very grateful for everyone's time and contributions. I know they get paid to do this, and time spent helping me is possibly money lost for them- so I'm extremely thankful for those folks.
Now, one issue I've realized lately, and sure enough is proving to be an obstacle in my current track, is squeezing out/inching out some db's on the limiter, for general folks benefit. No - I do not want it squashed or crushed beyond recognition, I just want to get those extra db's to match nicely following a commercially produced track.
Here's the exact problem, and your response to this post will tell me if you've continued reading or if you stopped above and took this as a general "raising volume/limiting" question. My fault, I suppose, for rambling on too long without getting to exact issue - the snare. Forget what volume and measurement we're dealing with for a moment, because we'll get caught up in which methods are best, applicable, and troublesome, and just assume there's a snare that's causing too many peaks.
Muting the snare will allow me to raise my limiter about 10db of input, with its threshold at -1. With the snare engaged, and the limiter at 8db input, same threshold, I will get about 4-5 db of gain reduction. The snare itself is rather heavily compressed - 1176 style with med A and R. Then, further, the drums are compressed within Superior D's plugin, then again in the DAW instrument (drum) channel, again with an 1176 at med settings. Then, the whole tune is running through two slight compression plugs, API first then Tokelnikov second, the first one acting quicker than the second, but really, they both have minimal gain reduction happening. I'm talking 1-2 db's at most. Don't freak out and think that because there's two compressors in tandem that insane compression is happening. It's not, it's very minimal. After those two comes the limiter.
When I examine the individual snare hits in the MIDI file, yes, I can adjust them, be it velocity or timing. Moving the snare blobs in small increments forward and backward can drastically change how the limiter reacts at that moment of the song - the its velocity. The goal, or train of thought, in doing it this way is that I don't have to mess with the snare's mixing properties, which I really like, and I can just move that midi blob until the master limiter doesn't go crazy. But it takes a long time, and I have to continually rewind the track and play it from the beginning since the limiter is responding to everything happening just before it, and what happens before that snare hit affects how that snare hit is triggering the limiter.
So, I've already applied some snare compression, drum channel compression, master compression, and limiting. But the snare is still poking out too much. This is MIDI, so I can adjust timing and velocity. But it's tedious and seems to be random, as to whether moving the snare blob this way or that will either increase the limiters reduction (bad) or decrease its reduction (good). I want the limiter doing BARELY any reduction, but at the same time, I want to be able to raise the overall volume another couple db's. The snare is making that difficult, and, like I said, moving the hits around seems to be random as to how it affects the limiter. Sometimes moving the snare slightly forward decreases reduction, sometimes it raises it. Same with moving it slightly backwards. The other property I can adjust (just realized) is the length of the hit - quick, snapping-like hit, or a slower, drawn out hit. Again, both seem to affect the limiter randomly.
My best guess is that simply lowering the velocity of the snare, and compressing it more will be the answer to my limiter issue. It's just weird that moving it milliseconds changes the limiters' reaction so drastically. It's like the exact combination of everything happening at that exact moment in the song is pushing it over the edge, even if the snare is literally quieter.
It's a pain. How are you guys approaching your snares and their effect on your limiters? If you use one, to begin with.
