How are "consumer audio speakers" tweaked as opposed to studio monitors?

UberGawkman

New member
Bought my first pair of studio monitors yesterday. Studiophile SP-5B's. Nice. It's cool the way things just kinda jump out at you. Almost freaky in a way.

Anyway, just had to mention that. For the longest time, I've been constantly reminded that you should mix on studio monitors because of their flat frequency response. Tah-da! I did it. I'm glad I did, makes me wonder how the hell I could have possibly mixed before.

But then I got to thinking, now that I'm hearing things with a fairly flat frequency response, what do manufacturers of consumer audio speakers and systems specifically do to their speakers? Obviously they design the speakers with flattery of certain frequencies in mind... but which frequencies? And why? Are there certain things that are common to do among speakers, say removing certain frequencies in the midrange (which are the frequencies that I'm now hearing that "jump out")?

Just trying to get an idea of what's going to happen to my sound after I'm done mixing and it's going through someone else's speakers.

If this has been covered before, please light the way! I wasn't exactly sure how to search for this topic... I've come up with tons of threads that tell how studio monitors differ from normal speakers... now I wish to know how normal speakers differ from studio monitors.
 
Well, all consumer speakers will have their own signature. Some will hype the bass, some will tame the mids, and some will just plain stink.

Although you don't see much talk about it anymore, many speakers are made with a decrease in the midrange/highs called the 'BBC Dip'. In short, the theory behind the BBC Dip is that if you decrease the mid/highs in the region where hearing is most sensitive, it becomes more pleasing a less fatiguing to listen to.

Generally, consumer speakers tend to follow that theory, but studio monitors strive for flatter response.
 
As an aside to my previous post, I'd like to mention that mixing on generally flat monitors is something that takes some getting used to. If you're accustom to listening to consumer speakers that color the sound, you will inevitably want to mix your material to have those same colors (which will result in poor translation to other speakers) . I would suggest listening to your favorite music on your studio monitors and recognize what that music sounds like on a flat sounding system. You will most likely notice that bass is not as boomy, and that the midrange/highs will seem more pronounced. It may take quite a while before you're comfortable, but eventually you'll learn what to listen for.

Sorry, just had to get that out. ;)
 
Hey, thanks for the replies.... I kinda figured a lot of the stuff you were saying, but it always helps to reassure. I'm not going to be doing any "official" mixing on these things for about 2 or 3 months... right now I have these monitors on my home PC.... I plan to spend a lot of time listening to my favorite mixed cds while surfing the net and doing other tasks.

I was just wondering if there are any "cliche" things to do to speakers that might help to keep in mind while mixing, like if a certain area of the low end is common to boost, so that I make sure my mix is very accurate in that area, since it will be more exposed, etc.
 
Most people have their home and car systems so jacked up with their own preferred EQ settings and the blessed Loudness button that you wont satisfy everyone.

Your goal as a mix engineer is to get a good neutral balance overall so people can mess it up on their own when they listen at home.

Your question is more about general mixing and yes there are general rules (mainly cutting low mids) on different instruments. To help give everything it's own space. There are a lot of posts here on those areas so if you are curious about something specific do a search on "Guitar EQ" or something like that.
 
My opinion, and I'm sure others will probably feel the same, is that there really are no rules to mixing. The only rules I can think of would be: Doing whatever it takes to make it sound good, and be objective. Don't get stuck doing the same things for every project/song you do. Just because the kick drum on one song sounds good with 80hz up 3db, doesn't mean it will sound good, or even fit the next song. Mixing is an art, and just like any artist, you have to hone your skills and make a few mistakes...That's the only way we learn.
 
Well, if anything, this has just reinforced the importance of flat-frequency reponse while mixing for accuracy, furthermore justifying the 300 bucks I just spent.

And Tex: thanks for the info, but this question really was more about speakers themselves. Just needing to know if there's a point to spending a lot of time making a certain area of the frequency spectrum really shine if it's gonna get cut later because it's an "undesirable frequency".

Hey, noticed you're from Phoenix, too.... do you work at/own any of the studios here?
 
Actually, the Studiophiles are far from flat. From the February Sound on Sound:

Hugh Robjohns

The SP5B is an active nearfield monitor, measuring 350 x 166 x 200mm (hwd) and weighing 5kg. The front panel of the vinyl-covered MDF cabinet carries a 5.25-inch polypropylene bass/mid-range driver, and a one-inch silk-dome tweeter. Both drivers are magnetically shielded.

The tweeter's mounting stands proud of the baffle such that the axis of the voice coil is some 30mm in front of that of the woofer. This also makes it very vulnerable to damage as the silk dome rises slightly proud. There is an unusual wave guide which can be angled to alter dispersion and directivity as required.

The metal rear panel supports the internal electronics and is fitted with an IEC mains inlet, complete with integral fuse holder and a rocker switch. Both XLR and TRS quarter-inch jack sockets provide balanced line-level audio input, and the two inputs are mixed internally with a single level control.

A large 1.5-inch flared port is positioned at the top of the rear panel and extends about four inches into the cabinet. Data provided with each loudspeaker showed a fairly flat frequency response, although closer inspection of the graph axes revealed that the plot only covered the range from 200Hz to 20kHz, and a dynamic range from 20 to 120dBSPL. In fact, the speaker's on-axis response fills a ±5dB window between 220Hz and 20kHz, with broad dips centred around 4kHz and 12kHz. The response peaked at 1kHz and seemed to tail off gently from there down, falling 8dB by 200Hz and looking like the trend would continue.

Listening Test

The SP5B sounded pretty much as you'd expect, given its frequency response. In a free-field situation the initial impression was of a small boxy-sounding speaker with a very forward mid-range and a generally weak bass response — the handbook insanely suggests a frequency range of 33Hz to 22kHz, but doesn't specify the measurement limits! You get more bottom end if you place the speakers close to rear or side walls, although not too close, as most of the LF comes from the rear port, which needs room to breathe.

The treble is clean and well extended, and the stereo imaging is precise and stable — an advantage of the small cabinet size. The speaker also sounds very fast, but is quite two-dimensional — there is no real depth and it fails to convey any impression of room size.

The amplifiers generate more than enough output level for nearfield use. An input of 200mV (-12dBu) is enough to produce full output with the gain controls fully up — a normal +4dBu monitor signal required the speaker's gain controls to be turned over half way down, which made balancing the stereo image a fiddly procedure.

Like many companies before them, M Audio claim that 'after long research and development' the SP5B changes 'the concept of nearfield reference monitoring', and is 'designed to overcome all the limitations of conventional nearfield reference monitors'. I think not! With the lack of any real bass energy, the SP5B does create an impression of 'transparency', but I really don't think it justifies the 'reference monitor' tag. I found mixes performed on this speaker didn't travel very well to other systems, and it was poor at revealing the details in complex mixes. Even choosing reverbs was difficult, as the speaker didn't seem to reveal any differences between my Lexicon's programs!

The SP5B has no real UK competition at the price. Most two-way active systems cost at least a hundred pounds more — the Genelec 1029, Yamaha MSP5, Tannoy Reveal Active, or HHB Circle 3A, for example. But a comparison with any of these would quickly reveal the weaknesses of the SP5B. I find it hard to recommend the SP5B, and would suggest you saved up a few hundred pounds more to buy a more dependable monitoring system.

M Audio SP5B £329

pros

Compact.
Self-powered.
Loud.

cons

Poor bass response.
Two-dimensional sound stage.
Boxy sound quality.

summary

A two-way active loudspeaker which sounds rather small and boxy.



I was pretty much sold on the Studiophiles myself, had M-Audio delivered on their performance claims. I'm glad I waited for the review instead of buying into the marketing.

Now, as for the hifi speakers vs. monitors issue....the monitors available in the $300 range aren't really much different from decent, similarly-priced hifi speakers. They may be designed with the goal of uncolored sound and flat response, but whether they actually achieve this is debatable. According to respected pro's on rec.audio.pro, you may be just as well off with certain models of hifi speakers, like NHT SuperOnes or Paradigm Mini Monitors.
 
You can get a pair of JBL4208's right now from Musician's Friend for $350. I like them so much I bought a second pair about two years ago. They seem to have good bass extension and no harshness in the highs. The grill sucks 'though and you have to take it off to really hear them. They also have a small sweet spot so when you're doing critical mixing you're pretty confined to one spot. I really like them otherwise. :D: :D: Dolemite has a point 'though. Some of the good high-fi brands are just as good if not better than pro-sound stuff. You just have to stay away from Cicuit City. Read Stereophile sometime. You'll see all kinds of stuff you never heard of and I can tell you..some of it sounds better than I ever thought recorded music could be. I have a friend with a big dollar system (all tubes thru a pair of MartinLogan electrostatics) and on recording after recording it was as if the artist was standing right in front of me. Simply unbelievable. Hmmm...well....My 4208's didn't sound like that.....Oh God I need $10,000. :(:
 
I worked with a pair of JBL4208's and I found them to be very coloured in the low end (low end boost) and BBC curve in the highs. Be careful.

cheers
John
 
Ya know...I've kind of had a hankering to hear a set of Magnepans. Have you heard their speakers before? (I hope, I hope) :)
 
Re: John on JBL4208's

Well, of course they will sound different in different rooms and with different amplifiers. But I also use mine for pleasure listening. I collect vinyl and I have a very nice VPI turntable with a Sumiko cartridge and I use it for listening to audiophile records (a lot of jazz and vocal stuff) and for me in my room with my gear I have found them to be true to the sound I know these records to have. They're certainly not lightweight in the bass, but I like a full-range sound. But you're right----anyone buying speakers needs to listen to them in their setting to see if they work. Your mileage may vary. ;)
 
Note on the 4208s

I myself had a pair of 4208s for several years (and like them very much for the most part). I recently sold them to my brother who wanted to use them as a set of computer speakers (taking the place of his old ARs). He too noticed the colored bottom end and found a relatively simply solution. Turns out the cabinet was resonating at certain (low) frequencies and some extra internal bracing took care of that problem. I haven't had a chance to listen to them since he added the bracing, but from what he tells me, they're noticably less colored in the bass now.

Just thought I'd share that, in case anybody else wants to give it a go.
 
Nope, never heard them, but I understand they sound sort of "distant" or laid-back. I'm not sure if that's a characteristic of electrostatics in general, but that's how I hear Magnepans described anyway. Was that your impression of the MLs?

A few people actually use Magnepans as monitors and seem to do well with them.
 
The Martin Logans were the most transparent, lifelike sounding speakers I've ever heard. Of course this guy had top-notch gear driving them but still....it was a simply unbelievable listening experience. I lust for them. Also I'm not sure that the Maggies are true electrostatics. I think they're some kind of planar speaker that's a little bit different.
 
Yeah, I think they're "planar-magnetic," not electrostatic, but the reasoning behind the different designs is the same.

I really want to hear some of these speakers myself, but its probably best I don't given my budget, or lack thereof. ;)

Magnepan lets you try their speakers for 60 days, and the basic model is $550 direct from them, which seems like a decent deal.
 
This is a great post. I'd like to make a few comments on it though...


Quote from UberGawkman

But then I got to thinking, now that I'm hearing things with a fairly flat frequency response, what do manufacturers of consumer audio speakers and systems specifically do to their speakers? Obviously they design the speakers with flattery of certain frequencies in mind... but which frequencies? And why? Are there certain things that are common to do among speakers, say removing certain frequencies in the midrange (which are the frequencies that I'm now hearing that "jump out")?

There is no difference in the speakers that you buy at Sam Ash or Circuit City other then the nearfeild aspect.
Most (not all) are just boxes of crap name studio monitors to sell to musicians.

The reason you are hearing such a difference is because, you are starting to pay attention to the sound of one speaker vs the other speaker, thus welcome to Audiophile land.


Quote from LooneyTunez

Well, all consumer speakers will have their own signature. Some will hype the bass, some will tame the mids, and some will just plain stink.

All speakers, amps, cd players, guitars, mixing board,
multi tracks, ECT... have there own colonizations.


Quote from Texroadkill


Most people have their home and car systems so jacked up with their own preferred EQ settings and the blessed Loudness button that you wont satisfy everyone.

Almost every person I have ever met, other then Audiophiles, have there Eq set in the standard V shape.
They never compared the music with out it on, or even tried to set it differently.
The original purpose of the Eq was to correct frequency problems
in you home.

Quote from Dolemite

Actually, the Studiophiles are far from flat. From the February Sound on Sound:

No speaker truly is.

Quote from Lt. Bob

Read Stereophile sometime.

Great Advice !!

Quote from Lt. Bob

have a friend with a big dollar system (all tubes thru a pair of MartinLogan electrostatics) and on recording after recording it was as if the artist was standing right in front of me. Simply unbelievable. Hmmm...well....My 4208's didn't sound like that.....Oh God I need $10,000.

No you do not. The Martins a truly a fantastic speaker
but the truth is that I can recommend a great pair of speakers
for $200.00, and they can double as your studio monitors.


When purchasing any speaker, it is best to be able to compare them to something.

Being the way I am, I have had the opportunity to listen to $10,000 - $20,000 speakers.
Some I liked, some I did not. BUT, even when I buy my $200 paradigms I compared
them to other speakers of about the same price. Actually, they sound better then any
Bose or any Kenwood speaker by a far margin.
They are just made with a different science behind them, that is Paradigm expects
the buyer to have really compared their product to others.


Love,
Sean
 
Just wanted to chime in about the JBL 4208s my bro, 'LonneyTunez' was talking about...

I have quite a bit of experience in DIY speakerbuilding, so when I got these 4208s, I immediately found room for improvement!

They seemed to have a bit of a tubby midbass, and from a simple "knuckle rap" test, the reason was pretty obvious! They resonated like a dumpster lid being slammed!

Down in the shop... open them up and lo and behold, these suckers have NO BRACING WHATSOEVER!! Especially poor is the molded plastic front baffle. If you put your finger on the spot between the woofer and tweeter and feel the vibrations while playing, it is really terrible! So that spot got a brace going from the front to back. I used super glue to attach the wood to the plastic.
Other braces were installed from wall to wall, and the top and bottom panels both got a X-brace glued onto their surfaces.

Now, the braces take up a wee bit of volume internally, so to compensate, I added a bit more stuffing than was stock.

Results are fantastic! The tubbiness is gone gone gone! They are nice and tight now, and the low bass extension is more evident because it's not being obscured by that wild, wooly midbass.

Other comments: The 4208s use pretty good quality drivers. Much better than most in that price range. The tweeter is smooth sounding without that brittle sound that is so common with titanium tweets. I think the little geodesic pattern on the surface of the tweet is doing a good job of taming resonances. The highs are a bit rolled off though. I listen with the treble control tweaked up slightly and that seems to do the trick.

Crossover parts quality is only OK. There are some iron core inductors in there, including the woofer's series inductor. Still, it seems like a carefully designed crossover, and that can make up for cheap parts pretty easily.

Overall, I think it's a very nice speaker! Much better when you brace it though!

It's a shame that manufacturers don't take the expense of properly bracing their cabinets! I can't imagine it would cost more than a couple bucks more per speaker, but I suppose if you multiply that by thousands of speakers,... well the cost-benefit analysis wins every time!
 
Great advice on the 4208's. I had noticed the enclosure was kinda wimpy before. As soon as I get the chance, I'll brace them like you suggest. I have no doubt it will help a lot. Thanks
:D: :D: :D:
 
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