[SOLVED] haas effect query

geoff957

Member
I'm trying out the 'Haas Effect' and continually get confused over mono & stereo.
I have a mono track which I make a copy of. I then delay one track by 30ms. and pan the tracks hard L & R.
The left panned track is loud as it's mono. Nothing in the right panned track. What am I missing here please?
Advice appreciated. Thanks.
 
Hi,
You'd need to tell us a little more, like what software you're using.
Describe your routing and give us details of hardware/connections too, if relevant.
 
Thanks for the reply. I am using Cubase 4 with an Audiophile 192 soundcard. This is a mono vocal track which I have duplicated and delayed as previously described.
 
It seems you have one track created as a stereo track maybe?

It should be as easy as duplicating a mono track and panning to the opposite side and adding track delay. I wonder if you are missing something...

And then there is the obvious question of why you would want to do this other than for trying to create a false stereo image of a mono source. There are better ways to do this, but I myself have gone there...

Most important is figuring out what is wrong with your setup that you can't get it to work.

We can chat about it and work through, or you could send me the whole project folder and I could tell you directly what is wrong. PM me. I can just open the file and see what is going on.
 
Thanks for the reply. That particular problem is solved as it turned out to be a hardware connection issue. However, it leaves another problem.
If I pan hard left, I hear out of both speakers, but only out of the right when I pan hard right. Any suggestions please as to why this is happening?
 
Realistically that's probably going to come down to hardware/hookup too but, as per first reply, troubleshooting happens very slowly if we have to guess. ;)

Monitors? Headphones? Line outputs? Headphone output? Splitter? Y cables? Mixers?
What have you got going on?

Is system audio in stereo? Can you pan system sounds or other apps properly?
 
Diverting this topic, I'm curious how you use the Haas effect as part of a recording/mix?

I should say that I use it all the time for live work when I'm doing theatre stuff. If I delay the front of house speakers so the sound from them arrives at the audience a small fraction of a second after the live actors on stage, suddenly the audience think all the sound is live and they don't realise how much is from the PA system.

However, after all these years I've never heard of an application for the Haas effect on recordings and now I'm really curious!
 
Realistically that's probably going to come down to hardware/hookup too but, as per first reply, troubleshooting happens very slowly if we have to guess. ;)

Monitors? Headphones? Line outputs? Headphone output? Splitter? Y cables? Mixers?
What have you got going on?

Is system audio in stereo? Can you pan system sounds or other apps properly?

Sorry I didn't put much information. I'm using a Soundcraft MFXi mixer and Mackie HR824 monitors. I recorded a short speech track and tried to pan. Pan right = Right signal audible. Pan Left = Left & Right signals audible but channel & Mixer stereo out show normal panning. So, it looks right but doesn't sound right. I've got the monitor outs from soundcard to 2 spare channels in the mixer which are panned hard L & R.
The monitor outs from mixer go straight to the Mackies and the sub outs from mixer to the inputs of the card. Mic is plugged into channel 1 of mixer via XLR and recording was done with that channel panned hard left. As regards panning system sounds & other apps, I'm not sure how I would do that. I've attached some pictures which might help or hopefully reveal some glaring oversight.
 

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Ok, thanks for the info.

If you remove the sub-out returns to the computer from the equation, (physically unplug them) does that change anything?

Also can you confirm that your DAW master outputs are to to correspond with the physical interface outputs you're using, and that the master output meters (L+R) both light up on the DAW with playback?
If you pan your mono track L then R whilst playing, the DAW master meters should reflect this.

Please confirm these three things then we'll see what's what. :)
 
Removal of the sub out returns has no effect.
The master DAW (monitor) L & R outputs are correctly connected to the mixer. These might have been crossed before I checked them as I now get signal in the left only when I pan right and both sides when I pan left. This, in spite of the fact I have ensured that each lead is correctly connected to the mixer and panned accordingly. Don't get that.
I can confirm that on playback, both the channel and master outputs in Cubase are visually normal. However, the soundcard in my picture shows what I actually hear when panned left i.e. both sides. It also shows (correctly) right when panned right as opposed to what I have written above.
Hope that answers the questions and sorry if this sounds confusing. I should emphasize that I am a musician not a technician and these things I struggle with.
 
Ok,
So when recording your input path is through the mixer, but when playing back your output path is also through the mixer, if I understand correctly.

Connect your audiophile 192 outputs directly to the mackies and see if DAW playback is predictable and correct.

If it is, connect the mackies back up to the mixer outputs and test a live microphone. Be careful for feedback.
Use the pan knob on your mixer mic input track to make sure the audio moves from left mackie to right mackie.

All you can really do is break the setup at various points and test what's happening.
Prove something, move to the next stage, prove something, move to the next stage.
 
Yes, both recording and playback is currently through the mixer. I have as you suggest now connected the card outputs direct to the monitors.
The problem persists.
Pan left = signal both speakers with the stronger one on the RIGHT
Pan right = signal on right only.
In Cubase the channel and main outputs still show normal correct behaviour.
I am beginning to wonder about the card or the PC itself as it doesn't seem to be doing what Cubase is telling it to do. I had to have a new graphics card fitted recently and a bit before that I had a strange thing that when I played my own recordings in the car the left channel played on the right and the right on the left. Don't know if any of that is relevant.
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it.
 
One more step along the road.....

If mixer direct to speakers shows the same problem but the DAW output meters show proper predictable activity on L+R, particularly when panning, then we're looking at the cables, the routing to or from mixer, or the way the mixer is set up.

It seems unlikely but if there's any manufacturer routing/mixing software with your audio interface, open it up and make sure that L+R outputs are panned as such and turned up.
I know my presonus software can mess up routing post-DAW.
Bt default the headphone outputs are disabled, which is always a nice head-scratcher! lol

After that I recommend taking one single cable from left output of interface to the mixer, and patching/panning on your mixer to try to make it audible via left, and right speaker separately.
Plug it into channel 7 then pan left, then right. It should move in your speakers.
Then Plug it into channel 8 and pan left, then right. Should get the same.

Mute the speakers in between - They'll probably BZZZZZZ with unplugged leads. ;)

If you're able to do that and all seems to work, you've proven that your DAW left output is live and that the mixer routing and speaker wiring is fine.
Repeat but take one single cable from the interface right output this time and do the same.


What you're proving here is the two paths and signals to the mixer, separately,
and the the two outputs from the mixer, separately.

Something there should shine a light.
 
Somehow you're sending a mono mix of the stereo output to the right side of your interface and that's being mixed with the regular stereo mix. Can't see enough of Cubase to know if the routing weirdness is there, or in the M-Audio software. Do you have more than just the Main Outs from Cubase somehow? What's happening on that Patchbay/Routing Tab of the interface software? I'd almost bet money the problem is right there.
 
Sorry I didn't put much information. I'm using a Soundcraft MFXi mixer and Mackie HR824 monitors. I recorded a short speech track and tried to pan. Pan right = Right signal audible. Pan Left = Left & Right signals audible but channel & Mixer stereo out show normal panning. So, it looks right but doesn't sound right. I've got the monitor outs from soundcard to 2 spare channels in the mixer which are panned hard L & R.
The monitor outs from mixer go straight to the Mackies and the sub outs from mixer to the inputs of the card. Mic is plugged into channel 1 of mixer via XLR and recording was done with that channel panned hard left. As regards panning system sounds & other apps, I'm not sure how I would do that. I've attached some pictures which might help or hopefully reveal some glaring oversight.

If you pan inside cuebase, and the master in the cuebase mixer is not hard panning, then check your vst connections for proper patching. if it is ok at the cuebase master, then look at the patches in the sound card's control panel. Also you should look at the master in cuebase to see if there is other things not correct.

Also it would be helpful if you post the screenshots of them: (cuebase master, vst connections, and sound card patches in the m-audio control panel)
 
It sounds lime you have recorded a mono signal to the left side of a stereo track. So when you copy and paste it to another track, you only have signal on the left. So, when you pan to the right, you get nothing.
 
In Cubase, check your Outputs. From main menu at top: Devices>VST Connections>Outputs.

What does that show?

Please provide screenshot.

Also post a screenshot of your Inputs on the screen.

Both of these will tell us you have the ASIO driver connected properly as they will show the interface and device ports.
 
One more step along the road.....

If mixer direct to speakers shows the same problem but the DAW output meters show proper predictable activity on L+R, particularly when panning, then we're looking at the cables, the routing to or from mixer, or the way the mixer is set up.

It seems unlikely but if there's any manufacturer routing/mixing software with your audio interface, open it up and make sure that L+R outputs are panned as such and turned up.
I know my presonus software can mess up routing post-DAW.
Bt default the headphone outputs are disabled, which is always a nice head-scratcher! lol

After that I recommend taking one single cable from left output of interface to the mixer, and patching/panning on your mixer to try to make it audible via left, and right speaker separately.
Plug it into channel 7 then pan left, then right. It should move in your speakers.
Then Plug it into channel 8 and pan left, then right. Should get the same.

Mute the speakers in between - They'll probably BZZZZZZ with unplugged leads. ;)

If you're able to do that and all seems to work, you've proven that your DAW left output is live and that the mixer routing and speaker wiring is fine.
Repeat but take one single cable from the interface right output this time and do the same.


What you're proving here is the two paths and signals to the mixer, separately,
and the the two outputs from the mixer, separately.

Something there should shine a light.

I've done that and the panning on the mixer moves the signal from L-R from both card outputs, so that looks ok.
I'm going to post couple of screenshots as I still can't see why the output on the card monitor mixer shows signal on L & R when panned L.
 
Somehow you're sending a mono mix of the stereo output to the right side of your interface and that's being mixed with the regular stereo mix. Can't see enough of Cubase to know if the routing weirdness is there, or in the M-Audio software. Do you have more than just the Main Outs from Cubase somehow? What's happening on that Patchbay/Routing Tab of the interface software? I'd almost bet money the problem is right there.

Thanks for reply. No, only main monitor outs from soundcard.
The output on the card shows signal L & R when panned left as per pic. I can't see why that should be.
 

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