Dynamic Range.

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Wtf is a PRS
I'll be honest. I don't understand alot of plug-in's and what they do. I fiddle with stuff till stuff sound's good. And truthfully i am a firm believer that less is more if you spend the time to get a good input signal.

but... thats neither here nor there. Just basically stating i don't realy know much about the processing of signals....

but

I clicked a link on this site which took me to another link and i found this...

Compression has been a mystery to me since forever but i still found this interesting as hell. Thoughts from any mixing guru's?

 
I'm no guru but I think videos like that are fantastic.

IMO, knowing stuff like this is pretty much essential in audio.
OK, mix using your ears, that's great, but I think understanding what you're doing with the tools is almost equally important.

This video puts across the basics and makes them simple and easy to understand.
 
I'm a bit of an old fart but I am part of the greatest generation :)

It is such a shame that with the tools available to us home recording guys, the talk always turns to compression and limiters blah, blah, blah! Take the time to track and mix properly and then when you listen to your masterpeice, turn it up on the stereo ( or i-whatever flavor is current) if you want it louder, not during the mix and master stage.

Now get the hell off my lawn :)
 
Its actually a very good and informative video. This is a very important concept in audio mastering. Loud does not always sound good if the dynamic range has been squashed. Its why , when I get tired I would pickup classical music recordings (like the Beethoven symphonies) instead of modern music. I found out that the wide dynamic range of symphony orchestra recordings is very relaxing to listen.
 
I found out that the wide dynamic range of symphony orchestra recordings is very relaxing to listen.

This is very true.

You know you that frustrating feeling you get watching somebody do something wrong? Like a bad guitarist or something?

I get that with a mix that's pumping away like crazy. It's like, you'd love nothing more that to raise the threshold and drop the makeup gain.

Can't enjoy it! That's why I don't really listen to any chili's post B.S.S.M.
 
I think one of the big problems with the whole "volume war" thing is the physical limitations of the media. With tape, whacking it too hard would lead to obvious "cracklies" and print-through. With vinyl, excessive volume would literally make the needle jump out of the groove and go skipping across the surface.

Digital doesn't have the physical limitations. And that's too bad.
 
The "loudness war" is a stupid debate and the anti-loudness people have been losing that battle for well over a decade now. Let it go. Iggy remixed "Raw Power" in 97 to be the most brutally loud album ever, and it is, and it's still awesome. It depends on the music. The only people that care about dynamic range are internet forum audio snobs, and they make up about .00000001% of the music buying general public, so they're not changing anyone's mind. The rest don't care if their Lady Gaga or Five Finger Death Punch single is pumping away at -3 RMS. So for those of you that cry about dynamic range, you can make your own mixes any way you want, and only listen to stuff that's really quiet and "dynamic". No one will try to stop you. Just shut up about it already, please. :spank: :laughings:
 
The "loudness war" is a stupid debate and the anti-loudness people have been losing that battle for well over a decade now. Let it go. Iggy remixed "Raw Power" in 97 to be the most brutally loud album ever, and it is, and it's still awesome. It depends on the music. The only people that care about dynamic range are internet forum audio snobs, and they make up about .00000001% of the music buying general public, so they're not changing anyone's mind. The rest don't care if their Lady Gaga or Five Finger Death Punch single is pumping away at -3 RMS. So for those of you that cry about dynamic range, you can make your own mixes any way you want, and only listen to stuff that's really quiet and "dynamic". No one will try to stop you. Just shut up about it already, please. :spank: :laughings:

And yet another broken record goes on and on
Works both ways doesn't it


Apologies.. A bit blunt for my likes
Actually I don't disagree with you, people will and should make what ever music they want. But I also say discussions that shed light how incredibly limiting (no pun) the choice of minimal dynamic is on your sonic/recording palette of options.. is still of some value.


AutoSaved for future ref..
 
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I thought comparing the wave form from a sparse bass player and drummer playing together and the wave form from a Strokes song, or whoever it was, was a little disingenous... I know he was trying to make a point, but...

I rarely put a CD on and think "Wow, this is compressed to shit...." but maybe it's just the type of music I listen to.
 
I thought comparing the wave form from a sparse bass player and drummer playing together and the wave form from a Strokes song, or whoever it was, was a little disingenous... I know he was trying to make a point, but...

I rarely put a CD on and think "Wow, this is compressed to shit...." but maybe it's just the type of music I listen to.

All of these loudness war debates are disingenuous. They rely on extremes from both sides to make whatever their point is. Never mind the jillions of examples in between that utilize master compression while still being dynamic.
 
The "loudness war" is a stupid debate and the anti-loudness people have been losing that battle for well over a decade now. Let it go. Iggy remixed "Raw Power" in 97 to be the most brutally loud album ever, and it is, and it's still awesome. It depends on the music. The only people that care about dynamic range are internet forum audio snobs, and they make up about .00000001% of the music buying general public, so they're not changing anyone's mind. The rest don't care if their Lady Gaga or Five Finger Death Punch single is pumping away at -3 RMS. So for those of you that cry about dynamic range, you can make your own mixes any way you want, and only listen to stuff that's really quiet and "dynamic". No one will try to stop you. Just shut up about it already, please. :spank: :laughings:

I agree. The war is over.
 
The "loudness war" is mainly hype anyway. 0dB(FS) is an absolute limit and as "loud" as you can get--all the compression in the world doesn't let you exceed that. Obviously, what's being talked about the the dynamic range, the difference between the peaks and the quiet bits--and there's no right or wrong to do with this.

What you choose to use depends on all sorts of factors but, in particular, the style of the material being mixed and also the listening conditions. What works for a symphony concert that builds from a solo flute to a whole orchestra crescendo listened to on an expensive audiophile stereo in a quiet living room won't work for a Metallica track listened to on earbuds on a noisy train.

The listening conditions are important here. In the "olden days" when I was younger, music was far from portable and my little record player in my room was always in nice quiet conditions. Nowadays, most music is listened to in cars or on personal stereos in noisy locations. A normal city street can be at around 80dB(SPL) before you even start to add music. There's a pretty small range between "drowned out by traffic" and "hearing damage".

I "mixed" a classical concert a while back (a misnomer for turning on an announce mic a few times) and, bored to tears, spent most of my time watching the SPL meter that constantly reads out at the mix position. Without any music, the audience and things like the ventilation system had the background level in the 1800 seat theatre at about 58dB(SPL). With the very quietest passages of music playing, this was up around 68dB(SPL) and a few crescendos hit just under 100dB(SPL) at the mix position. Many classical CDs reflect close to this sort of dynamic range.

However, most of the live stuff I do is theatre and, throwing in the usual moving lights and rustling candy wrappers in the audience, anything I mix for theatre has to have a significantly smaller dynamic range if the quiet bits are to be heard by everyone. As and aside, a show I did some years back started with a fade in of sound (and fade out of the house lights) that lasted almost two minutes. It was interesting to watch the point at which the audience actually noticed something was going on. For more than the first minute they tended to just talk louder to be heard then, suddenly realised there really was something happening and went quiet.

Anyhow, I digress. As long as music is going to be listened to in cars and on personal stereos, the "loudness war" is already lost--subtlely will be lost even if you try for it. The trick is to fool the ear into THINKING you're getting a variety of levels even if they're within a narrow range of levels.
 
The "loudness war" is mainly hype anyway. 0dB(FS) is an absolute limit and as "loud" as you can get--all the compression in the world doesn't let you exceed that. Obviously, what's being talked about the the dynamic range, the difference between the peaks and the quiet bits--and there's no right or wrong to do with this.

What you choose to use depends on all sorts of factors but, in particular, the style of the material being mixed and also the listening conditions. What works for a symphony concert that builds from a solo flute to a whole orchestra crescendo listened to on an expensive audiophile stereo in a quiet living room won't work for a Metallica track listened to on earbuds on a noisy train.

The listening conditions are important here. In the "olden days" when I was younger, music was far from portable and my little record player in my room was always in nice quiet conditions. Nowadays, most music is listened to in cars or on personal stereos in noisy locations. A normal city street can be at around 80dB(SPL) before you even start to add music. There's a pretty small range between "drowned out by traffic" and "hearing damage".

I "mixed" a classical concert a while back (a misnomer for turning on an announce mic a few times) and, bored to tears, spent most of my time watching the SPL meter that constantly reads out at the mix position. Without any music, the audience and things like the ventilation system had the background level in the 1800 seat theatre at about 58dB(SPL). With the very quietest passages of music playing, this was up around 68dB(SPL) and a few crescendos hit just under 100dB(SPL) at the mix position. Many classical CDs reflect close to this sort of dynamic range.

However, most of the live stuff I do is theatre and, throwing in the usual moving lights and rustling candy wrappers in the audience, anything I mix for theatre has to have a significantly smaller dynamic range if the quiet bits are to be heard by everyone. As and aside, a show I did some years back started with a fade in of sound (and fade out of the house lights) that lasted almost two minutes. It was interesting to watch the point at which the audience actually noticed something was going on. For more than the first minute they tended to just talk louder to be heard then, suddenly realised there really was something happening and went quiet.

Anyhow, I digress. As long as music is going to be listened to in cars and on personal stereos, the "loudness war" is already lost--subtlely will be lost even if you try for it. The trick is to fool the ear into THINKING you're getting a variety of levels even if they're within a narrow range of levels.

Yes. This ^^^^^^^^^^^
 
I had an article in MusicTech or FutureMusic that explained how the loudness war had not necessarily damaged the dynamic range of tracks but I couldnt understand it so I cant tell you what it said lol


if I come across it Ill start a thread and maybe someone else can explain it

I dont know why Im in this thread


:D
 
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