Drum Panning Psychology: Audience or Drummer's Perspective?

C

Clintage

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So the question is:

In a mix, should you pan the drums (specifically toms and overheads) to the "listening audience's" point-of-view (i.e. right-to-left) or to the drummer's ears (left to right)?

I've heard recordings both big and small do both. Here's my take:

You gotta look at the perception/mind of the listener. It makes sense to pan right-to-left at a live show because the audience sees the drummer's fill go from the listener's right to left. It would be weird to hear it from left to right and see him filling from right to left. It would feel out of sorts and possibly distract from the show if the listener is paying attention. However, I feel it should be the opposite listening to a CD. Consciencely or sub-consciencely, the listener knows that your standard everyday drummer plays left to right (generally). I think it's just the opposite for recording than live. It doesn't seem like you're at a live show if you're listening in your car. Generally, you don't imagine yourself watching a live show when your driving in your car listening to your favorite tune. The listener knows that the fill generally goes left to right, so when you hear it right to left, it sounds out of place. There is no visual to connect it with, except the mental visual of being where the drummer is.

So, in short, there's obviously no absolute way to do it. It isn't right or wrong. But in my mind, live should go with the audience's point of view and recording should be from the drummer's.

On the flip-side of this, I've contended in my mind many times that my ability to just simply listen to music as a typical listener has been screwed up by recording/engineering/mixing. So, my viewpoint may be unknowingly beyond what the standard listener cares about.

Any thoughts on the panning? I'd like to hear other opinions. :confused:

-Clintage
 
When I play my air drums I play then from L to R.
So I like mixing from the players side.
 
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Being a drummer, I always pan from drummer's perspective. And you have to keep in mind that most non-musicians couldn't tell the difference even if you pointed it out to them.
 
What if the drummer is a lefty? Then how should you mix it? Wouldn't it sound like the live perspective and thus not be "correct"?
 
hmmm... good thought. It's debatable. Do you stick with the left to right on the recording because thats generally what you'd expect (if working from the train of thought of original post), or do you further use that band's uniqueness by having a lefty drummer and implement an individual drummer's persective? Good thought.

-Clintage
 
I mix drums from the listeners POV.
I feel like the listener is 'facing' the music (band) and the band 'faces' the listener and the mix should reflect that.
But I would reverse for a lefty to reflect that player in that band.
Just my opinion.

Like MadAudio said, most average listeners would not notice.
 
I personally do my mix from the drummers perspective left to right.

Because of the fact you read from left to right things feel a little natural when you visualize them that way. The same technique is used in film. Youll see many more shots, especially long distant ones, with the actors or main object going from left to right. At least its desired to do it this way but probably not always possible.

So overall. I just feel when i hear it from left to right on the fills it just sounds more natural.

Would a Japanese person pan them from up to down?

Danny
 
Recently, there was a thread on this exact subject. I'm a left-handed drummer, so is Phil Collins...and so is Ian Paice of Deep purple. Can anyone honestly say they've noticed that these guy's drums are panned the opposite of eveyone else???
In all the years I've been listening to and playing music, I have never, EVER noticed which side most of the drums are panned to. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter. It's alot more important to make sure you don't have instruments stumbling all over each other. You have to look at the big picture. If you put a tamborine and a pair of maracas in the left speaker, you probably don't want to have the high hats there too.
 
In the kind of metal I do, with lots of tom rolls across the board, I go Left to Right. It's always seemed distracting to have the high tom come from the right, but then again, that's just me. I could always just swap my speakers around
 
Who cares. When I listen to the music, a visual representation of the band playing is not something I see or imagine.

Drummer's perspective. Never thought about why.
 
I also pan them always from drummers perspective. No particular reason except it feels "wrong" if I do it the other way around. No one in their right mind would pan a piano so that the bass notes come from right, either. :p
 
for ease of use I usually set tracks up moving from left to right, even if I have guitars panned, it's always way easier for me to find things if the guitar panned left is right above the similar part panned right. organization can really really speed my mixing process.

one time I mixed a left handed drummer who played a right handed kit backwards and made him sit and listen to it... drove him nuts.
 
Clintage said:
You gotta look at the perception/mind of the listener. It makes sense to pan right-to-left at a live show because the audience sees the drummer's fill go from the listener's right to left. It would be weird to hear it from left to right and see him filling from right to left. It would feel out of sorts and possibly distract from the show if the listener is paying attention. However, I feel it should be the opposite listening to a CD.
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Drummer's perspective. I can't for the life of me think of why you'd mix a live show in stereo. The people up close and in the middle would probably hear more of the stage sound than the mains. The people up close and to the left would not hear the mains from the right. The people up close and to the right would not hear the mains on the left. The only people that could possibly beneifit from a live stereo mix would be the people straight in the back, and they're BACK there because they spent all their money on pot and only had enough left to buy the cheap seats and they're too stoned to notice. ;)
 
i like to keep a lot of stuff i want noticable in the left speaker due to the fact that when you are driving you will hear that speaker better than the passanger side. i like to have hi hat in the left.
 
I mix from the POV of a right-handed drummer. But again it is really not a big deal how it is done as long as everything has it's own space (And isn't obviously placed out of sequence...i.e. toms sequently move in the same direction in descending pitch, unless the drummer actually has his kit set up that way).
 
7string said:
Drummer's perspective. I can't for the life of me think of why you'd mix a live show in stereo. The people up close and in the middle would probably hear more of the stage sound than the mains. The people up close and to the left would not hear the mains from the right. The people up close and to the right would not hear the mains on the left. The only people that could possibly beneifit from a live stereo mix would be the people straight in the back, and they're BACK there because they spent all their money on pot and only had enough left to buy the cheap seats and they're too stoned to notice. ;)
Click to expand...

You would mix a band live in stereo to compensate for a screaming 4X12 on one side of the stage for example. That's about it though. Stoned or not.
 
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