Drum panning - EZ Drummer

mjbphotos

mjbphotos

Moderator
When I first started mixing, I would pan the drums from the 'audience point of view' - hi hat to the right, floor tom to the left, etc.
But with EZDrummer, I started doing it the other way, the 'drummer POV'. I figured the stereo overheads are oriented that way, right?

How do you pan your drums (either programmed or live)?
 
I do an idealized audience perspective. For me it's a democratic choice, and I assume the audience outnumbers the drummer. Plus, it looks better on the video.
 
Not to hijack this post but in addition to your thoughts, do you use the full output of each drum and cymbal to it's own track in your DAW? As your average home songwriter type, I've only output EZD to a single track and do my "mixing-panning" within EZD.
 
wmalan said:
Not to hijack this post but in addition to your thoughts, do you use the full output of each drum and cymbal to it's own track in your DAW? As your average home songwriter type, I've only output EZD to a single track and do my "mixing-panning" within EZD.
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Unless there is some special processing one is going to do, I never really understood doing that since it has an internal mixer. But I do like that you can, just in case there is a reason.
 
DM60 said:
Unless there is some special processing one is going to do, I never really understood doing that since it has an internal mixer. But I do like that you can, just in case there is a reason.
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If you want to add certain effects to certain tracks. For example, say you want to throw some gated reverb on the snare and give it that 80's vibe. Or if you want to compress/eq the kick or snare or something else. If I remember right, EZDrummer is pretty much already processed, but Superior Drummer isn't.

It can also be more convenient to mix it all in your DAW instead of having to go back and forth between EZDrummer and your DAW.
 
mjbphotos said:
I figured the stereo overheads are oriented that way, right?

How do you pan your drums (either programmed or live)?
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Man...I haven't looked at EZD in ages...but I know in SD, I can "flip" the panning on the entire mix section with one click.
So are you saying you can't do that to the OH track...?

Anyway...it's always been audience perspective for me....for like the last 20+ years.
IOW...I want the hats toward the right, and the floor toms to the left.

I tried flipping it a couple of times over the years, just to try it out...and it just sounded weird...:D...but that's because I've simply gotten use to hearing it from audience perspective (right-handed drummer).
When I've used a left-handed drummer, I leave it drummer's perspective...and it still comes out the way I'm use to hearing it. :)
 
Can you 'flip' the OH track in EZD? Have no idea, and I only assume that its drummer's perspective, too.

Yes, I send all the EZD tracks to separate tracks in Reaper. Not only for any FX (I typically have more reverb on snare and OH), but also for mix adjusting, tweaking the mix as its gets close to the finish - why would I want to open up a secondary mixer, when its all in front of me with the regular view?
 
Was just getting a feel for how ya'll use EZD. I've only used EZD's built in mixer as it's convenient. There are various mixing options of reverb, bleed, OH, dynamics, etc depending on the kit I choose. I'm not too concerned with the separate mixing window. I am thinking I should start using separate tracks especially for getting the drums to "fit" better into the mix.
 
mjbphotos said:
Can you 'flip' the OH track in EZD? Have no idea, and I only assume that its drummer's perspective, too.

Yes, I send all the EZD tracks to separate tracks in Reaper. Not only for any FX (I typically have more reverb on snare and OH), but also for mix adjusting, tweaking the mix as its gets close to the finish - why would I want to open up a secondary mixer, when its all in front of me with the regular view?
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Well...I do the same with my SD tracks...send them to my DAW app....but, I first "set" my kit basics in SD.
I don't just send the SD tracks "raw", as-is to the DAW, and then tweak them there...mainly because tweaking them in SD, the basic stuff, is much easier.
It's like...SD is where I fine tune the kit setup...like you might do when you're setting up the mics and your pres and all that shit, and tuning the drums and selecting the snare and the cymbals...etc...etc.

Like I said...in SD, I go to the mixer...hit one button..and the entire kit is flipped from L to R, or R to L.
Much easier doing that there. I also use the SD mixer and instrument panel to tweak the tones, the level, the pitch...etc.

I would think you could do some of that in EZD (I assume you are talking about EZD2...?)...but just from what saw in EZD1, which I have, and the demos of EZD2...neither is as robust with its kit control and tweaking options as SD is capable of.
You should consider upgrading. I can guarantee you will never go back to EZD. :)

I mean...EZD 1 and 2 are OK for just grabbing some drum tracks...but if you want to be able to treat the drum tracks as if YOU had actually recorded them....then SD is the better tool.
 
Set up my panning and bleed levels in Superior Drummer, then bounce it all out to my DAW when the MIDI is written. I could pan later, in the DAW when mixing, but I like to hear each piece in its final place when writing. Once in the DAW, I do all my EQ, compression, reverb etc there. I'd rather use my own reverbs and EQ than the SD option.
 
I do start EZD2 by tuning the drums and cymbals (pitch and actual selection of drum/cymbal) if I feel the song needs a change. And sure enough, I just checked one of the menus I had never looked at and there is a choice for drummer's perspective (default) and audience perspective.
Guess I know what I'll be doing on future mixes! Have to change my Reaper project templates, too - I have these set up for my usual kit sound(s), snare bottom mic vs top mic mix, etc.

I have never used the 'room' reverb from EZD, I think using the same reverb as I use on my instruments (but separate buss) helps pull the mix together better.
As my usual tracking method is to set a loop (near what I think the song will use when done) as a metronome to record my basic rhythm tracks (or sometimes just scratch track), it's easier for me to just have the mix set up in Reaper. I do the MIDI editing after that.
 
I always go with drummer perspective, even when mixing real drums. I've never really thought about it, but I think most of the drum machines I've ever used defaulted that way and by now it just doesn't sound right to me to have the hat on the right. I don't usually like my drums panned very wide, though, because when you're listening to a live band the drums really I pretty narrow in the center with the other instruments around them. So it's not so much "drummer perspective" as "reversed audience" or maybe like "frontman's perspective" - like you're standing a little ways in front of the drums looking at the audience. Remember that nobody in the world really cares except a few nerds like us, so you can do what you want.

I was kind of surprised to hear so many people talking about hating the SD/EZD room mic. I tend to lean pretty heavily on that, and quite often the whole mix is pretty much just room mic and maybe the kick. That's not really about the reverb, though. I just tend not to want the sound of close mics - the drums themselves sound more like drums in a room through the room mic. But then that makes it a lot tougher to mix the individual drums. In SD you can adjust the bleed levels in the room mic, but that gets tedious. A lot of times I actually just render separate passes for groups of drums. Maybe kick and snare, then cymbals, then the rest of the kit. That way I can bring them up or down, or compress/EQ them differently, and have the faders right there next to everybody else. It gets kind of suck, though, trying to mix and match pieces between kits, because different kits can have a significantly different sound to their room mics.
 
Man, drum looping sounds complicated. I'm glad I just have real drums to deal with.

Having mixed hundreds of live shows from a console out in the audience I tend to take their view. I do swap left and right on the studio headphone mix so performers get stage perspective.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Man, drum looping sounds complicated. I'm glad I just have real drums to deal with.
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Not really....AFA setting up the kit and all that. In Superior Drummer, it's pretty much the same as if you had a kit in the studio and you were setting up the mics, and deciding on where/what is going track-wise...etc.

Now...AFA the actual groove sequencing...that's really up the skills of the user. Same as playing a kit is up to the skills of a drummer. Thing is, most people are not drummers, but they sequence drum tracks...so that becomes their Achilles Heel....and yes, that part could be complicated for some folks...knowing how to to create livable drum grooves.

AFA the actual sounds...TBH, the kit sample packs are quite good. Probably better drum sounds than most could capture in their makeshift home studios, and in some cases, better than you get from many formal studios. They are samples recorded in some of the best drum rooms, and captured through some of the best studio gear...so there's really nothing there to complain about, plus, you still get to tweak the shit out of them...unlike old style drum "loops".
 
miroslav said:
Not really....
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Yes, all of that. In fact, most of the time if I really need something from drums that I can't get with a stereo pair and a kick mic, I'd rather just go with triggers than fuck around setting up all those mics. Drummers tend to complain, but luckily it doesn't come up that often. :)
 
EZD2 has both snare and overhead bleed control, I'll usually leave them up slightly, but not even halfway, so there's a little hihat coming through the snare mic, and some snare and hh coming through the OH.
I just was remixing a song I did with the classic rock kit with 4 mics (kick, snare, OH), and it wouldn't be my first choice unless I wanted that early 60s raw rock kind of mix.

Like ashcat, I don't pan my drums wide - I usually set the width to around 61 (maybe a little wider on the OH), and with the HH ar around 45%, the floor tom around 50%.
 
ashcat_lt said:
I'd rather just go with triggers than fuck around setting up all those mics.
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Toontrack will provide a better raw sound than me setting up cheap mics in a room. I would think they provide a better sound than the vast majority of home recorders would be able to capture.
 
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