Drum mixing question

ido1957

9K Gold Member
I'm mixing some drums into a new song and the snare has a lot of resonance/ring in it.
It almost sounding like 60 cycle hum from an amp when I started mixing if that makes sense.
It's coming through on every mic but especially the snare mics (top/bottom) and the overheads.
So I put a gate on the snare tracks and eq'd what I think are the frequencies with a narrow q
The OH I just eq;d as the gate was weird on the cymbals.
The ring was reduced overall but is still there but not as noticeable.
Any feedback on snare mixing would be appreciated.
View attachment Snare raw.mp3 before
View attachment Snare after.mp3 after

Snare1.jpg
Snare2.jpg
 
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Thanks Jimmy I've read about that trick but it's not my drums so I can't change the setup. Just wondering how to work with what I have for now.
 
That type of ring can and is often featured these days in a lot of music.....it might actually work for you...?

Sure, it's a taste thing, but as much as I often prefer a more dry snare POP, like what you have in the second MP3 clip, I have found myself on some songs wanting more of the resonant ring, as it just seemed to fit the given song better than a dry sound.

Anyway...if you have any type of transient/attack/release tools....just gently roll off some of the tail, without making it completely dead....but you should first see how the as-is snare sound works within the mix before messing with it.
You might find that it actually sounds good. I mean, I've heard that ringy flavor of snare on a lot of modern tunes and I have to admit, it works.

The Wallflowers "One Headlight" back in the late '90s (there are other bands/songs too) is one of the first songs I remember hearing with that kind of snare sound...and I really liked how it fit the mix.

 
Jimmy's right. I use a wallet laying on the snare (Ringo Starr did that) but it looks like you have tamed it about as much as is safe. How do the drums sound with all the other instruments? If you go easy on the reverb overall, it might work. If you can't retrack, then you have to work with what you have. I learned to take out all muffling from the bass drum to give a bigger sound to the whole mix. I negated the need for reverb and sounded like the band was kicking it in a larger room. I would do a mix and see how the whole thing sounded. I had a session where the drummer wanted the snare sound from Korn but his snare was all buzzy. I tried to switch out his snare for one of several I had in my closet just for such situations but he wanted to stick with his. We taped, moon gel'ed, tightened, loosened, muffled and it still buzzed. We tuned and retuned. Finally he said it was ok. They were paying so I went back to recording. Of course, it was a problem later and they spent over a hundred dollars in time and we had another engineer come in to see what he could do He wondered why he was there. He said it sounded fine. (it just wasn't the tight 2x4 sound the drummer wanted) Finally they lived with it. But the lesson was, switch that puppy out. I hope it works for you the way it is.
Rod Norman
Engineer
 
Yeah I've already mixed and as I said it sounds bad with the ring so I'm trying to get rid of as much as I can.
 
What you can do is to frequency sweep it with a low Q at a very high amplitude, increase the Q, adjust the frequency, increase the Q, adjust the frequency and keep doing this until you cannot get the Q any higher and until the bell sits at the eye of the noise, then you just cut it out. Once you have spotted the area at the lowest Q, it makes sense to temporarily filter off all other frequencies on the snare so that you can focus on these particular noise frequencies. If you have a lot of monitoring options, it makes sense to use the monitors/cans that best reveil the noise/where the noise is the loudest. Do this at high monitoring volume and remove it just as much as you can until you notice other side effects, then back off a little and leave the cut at that level. If at that level it is still a bit too loud, try to apply a compressor (without re-gain) at the same frequency band to further remove the noise. If after that you still find you want it slightly softer still, try to do a small cut on the same frequency as on the first EQ, after the compressor. If this does not work, add one more setup like this on a different frequency, keep adding cuts until it's gone. Do as little as possible to remove the noise and stay focused on what side effects you notice from the cuts. The snare sound is very important.

It is very important that you use monitors that reveil this noise a lot and that you work at pretty high monitoring volume, so that your cuts don't become too big and too wide. It's like applying reverb, it's so easy to overdo it and hence destroy the mix. Be careful not to let this noise dictate the level at which you set the snare. The vitality of a mix is to a great degree determined by the signal level of the snare. Set it at a vital enough signal level even if it becomes hard/harsh and even if it makes the mix clip, then cut out the noise/harshness. When in doubt, stay loud. The vitality factor is always a priority above everything else. If you lose the signal it doesn't matter how clean it is, it is still going to suck the life out of the mix. Set the vitality of each sound source where it needs to be, then deal with the noise/harshness through subtractive EQing, frequency band compression and volume/EQ/compressor automation at loud monitoring volume and as little as possible. It also helps to mute the bass guitar when you balance the snare, so that you can make the snare cut through much enough first of all. Then when you add the bass guitar you can set it at a vital level, initially having the kick and snare muted. Then once you know the bass is overall at a vital level you unmute the kick and snare. You then re-mute, un-mute and pay attention to the punch. Then you side chain the punch frequencies to ensure the kick and snare cuts through the bass guitar and do subtractive EQing until you are satisfied with the sound of all three. This works because in the result you have much enough signal assigned to all three, hence the mix stays vital rather than scooped and lifeless. Sometimes there might be some residues left, but hey, that's what mastering is for. :D When I bring my mixes to mastering, I do so at a point when everything is perfect except I can notice some minor residues here and there that makes the overall sound a little unpolished. In mastering I make it sound polished and commercially competitive in the particular genre. That requires a certain overall balance quality in terms of the MID and SIDE components.
 
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That type of ring can and is often featured these days in a lot of music.....it might actually work for you...?

Sure, it's a taste thing, but as much as I often prefer a more dry snare POP, like what you have in the second MP3 clip, I have found myself on some songs wanting more of the resonant ring, as it just seemed to fit the given song better than a dry sound.

Anyway...if you have any type of transient/attack/release tools....just gently roll off some of the tail, without making it completely dead....but you should first see how the as-is snare sound works within the mix before messing with it.
You might find that it actually sounds good. I mean, I've heard that ringy flavor of snare on a lot of modern tunes and I have to admit, it works.

The Wallflowers "One Headlight" back in the late '90s (there are other bands/songs too) is one of the first songs I remember hearing with that kind of snare sound...and I really liked how it fit the mix.



Lovely Video post Miroslav, brings back good music memories, thanks! :listeningmusic:
 
this reminds me of my sonar 5 producer edition days, ahh the good old days. Have you tried multiband compression? to whack down the nasty frequencies? it's worked for me in the past much better than EQ
 
Any thoughts about the 2 mp3 samples (before/after in the OP?

Mmmm...not sure what you're asking....?...which one is better...?

I don't mind the ring, but it's hard to say how good/bad it is without hearing it in the whole mix.

The "after" is a bit too dull/short....a bit unnatural sounding, but again without hearing it in the mix, hard to say if it's good or bad.
 
Mmmm...not sure what you're asking....?...which one is better...?

I don't mind the ring, but it's hard to say how good/bad it is without hearing it in the whole mix.

The "after" is a bit too dull/short....a bit unnatural sounding, but again without hearing it in the mix, hard to say if it's good or bad.


Agreed. There is no way to give an opinion on any solo'd instrument will sound without the rest of the mix with it.
 
Tune the snare differently. A big ping in a snare is due to the way the top and bottom heads are tuned. You could also use one of those dampening rings (duct tape can work but the rings are a lot better IMO).
 
Tune the snare differently. A big ping in a snare is due to the way the top and bottom heads are tuned. You could also use one of those dampening rings (duct tape can work but the rings are a lot better IMO).

Ido made it clear earlier that he has no control over the already recorded tracks that are not by him.

Your first advice was good about tuning. Those dampening rings suck as bad as duct tape.

If a drum sounds so bad that duct tape is the answer, then recording should be the last thing on anyone using it should be dealing with.

It all starts at the source.


@ ido: I think you are addressing the issue appropriately. Sometimes you do have to fix things that you have no control of. Sucks, but needed at times.
 
Thanks Jimmy - I thought I was on the right track as I watched a few YT videos about it and just tried a bunch of things to arrive at where it is. I guess my worry was that even though I thought it sounded good to me, it might not work in the mix. Just worried about my old ears....
 
That type of ring can and is often featured these days in a lot of music.....it might actually work for you...?

Sure, it's a taste thing, but as much as I often prefer a more dry snare POP, like what you have in the second MP3 clip, I have found myself on some songs wanting more of the resonant ring, as it just seemed to fit the given song better than a dry sound.

Anyway...if you have any type of transient/attack/release tools....just gently roll off some of the tail, without making it completely dead....but you should first see how the as-is snare sound works within the mix before messing with it.
You might find that it actually sounds good. I mean, I've heard that ringy flavor of snare on a lot of modern tunes and I have to admit, it works.

The Wallflowers "One Headlight" back in the late '90s (there are other bands/songs too) is one of the first songs I remember hearing with that kind of snare sound...and I really liked how it fit the mix.



First of all, one of my favorite all-time tunes.

But this is a perfect example of something I remember posting about a couple of years ago. I started a thread about how "Big Name" artists can get away with things that a home-recorder would be shot down for. I think I used something like "Stairway to Heaven" as an example. If someone here ever posted something like that, people would be saying the drums need to come in earlier, etc....

But my point isn't about whether Stairway is a good song or not. It's one of the biggest songs in classic rock history, so I don't think Page or Plant give a shit what anyone thinks about it.

But I know that if you, I or anyone else ever posted a tune with this ringing snare, it would be the first thing everyone would comment on, and I'm sure none of the comments would be positive. It would be all about "get rid of that ring". But when a "name" band with a "name" producer does it, it's genius.


...just felt like making that observation.......
 
It's working about as well as its going to in that mix and doesn't sound bad by any means. Not MY ideal snare sound, but it's obviously all you have to work with and is indeed the way the snare was tuned. And as many people have posted already, the amount of ring is a matter of taste anyway. I don't think the average listener is going to notice, much less care about, the amount of ring you have in this snare.
 
That type of ring can and is often featured these days in a lot of music.....it might actually work for you...?

Sure, it's a taste thing, but as much as I often prefer a more dry snare POP, like what you have in the second MP3 clip, I have found myself on some songs wanting more of the resonant ring, as it just seemed to fit the given song better than a dry sound.

Anyway...if you have any type of transient/attack/release tools....just gently roll off some of the tail, without making it completely dead....but you should first see how the as-is snare sound works within the mix before messing with it.
You might find that it actually sounds good. I mean, I've heard that ringy flavor of snare on a lot of modern tunes and I have to admit, it works.

The Wallflowers "One Headlight" back in the late '90s (there are other bands/songs too) is one of the first songs I remember hearing with that kind of snare sound...and I really liked how it fit the mix.

I would like to point out that one of the reasons the ringing snare works in this song is because it rings the length of an 1/8 note. If the length of the ring didn't fit the tempo of the song, it would sound like crap.
 
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