Do you think my VST instruments sound real?

P

pistachio

New member
Hi everyone,

For a long time I recorded using real instruments, but over the last year or so I've started using FL Studio and VST instruments more and more in my recordings. It's actually so easy I hardly ever get around to not just figuring things out with FL Studio's piano roll.

However, I have this weird obsession to try to get my fake instruments to sound as real as possible. To do this I bought EZdrummer and I've been using that for my drums. I also purchased Garritan Personal Orchestra and its so good I now use that for just about every other instrument besides the drums (piano, strings, horns, celesta, etc.). I also learned how to use the mod wheel on for these VST instruments to sort of "fake" dynamics.

I hope anyone who reads this will let me know what you think of the song I linked below and the mixing I did. :o

 
thoughts

the drums sound fake... but those horns sounded real good till the last 2 notes.. (jmho)

i used ezdrummer for about a week. then i got superior drummer 2.0 .... so much better.. they still sound fake though. unless you record the midi with an electric kit. but... overall your sound is nice.. id say use real drums and guitars. but its all up to you.

;)

haha

ps are those "oohs" a vst instrument?
 
Thanks for the answer! I think I'll probably stick with ezdrummer for a little while. It doesn't matter so much that the drums sound fake, but I can see what you mean about the last 2 notes.

And those oohs are real.
 
I am gonna resist the temptation of starting yet another rant about "real" and "artificial" and "natural" and.... :D
 
the drums stand out as fake. I don't know if it's because every person in the world uses EZdrummer (myself included), but I can't stand the way it sounds out of the box. I think it can sound pretty good with some tweaking though.

Horns sound more real, but hearing it, I wouldn't think that they were.

I completely understand the want to get real sounding fake instruments. I think that's what I spend most of my brain power on when I record. It's more a self gratification thing though, because I hear professionally recorded songs all the time with very fake sounding instruments even when they aren't supposed to sound fake.
 
To me the drums didn't sound too bad at all (kick could use a little presence) but what was crappy was the crash cymbal being identical several times in a row.

Usually the drummer will have a crash on the left and on the right. What I've done before is: the snare, kick an hi hats are quantized but lay down the cymbals using a keyboard and don't quantize them. Play clusters of two or three cymbals together with the notes space slightly apart and each one is a different combo of velocities. What you end up with is that each crash sounds a little different and is in a slightly different pan position.

Our ears are always searching for patterns and in real drums it is virtually impossible to hit a cymbal several times in a row and for it to sound the same each time. Drums don't have as much of a problem as even real snares and kicks (especially through a compressor) can sound very similar hit after hit. Cymbals are way more complex.

I wasn't real crazy about the horns at the end. The best way I've found to lay down horns is with a breath controller. Real horns don't come on like a switch, there's more variation in velocity. Playing horns with a keyboard is always iffy. The best thing I've found is to stay away from triads and do more 8va unisons and maybe a 5th harmony. You really got to watch your note lengths, don't assume the keyboard as being in tune and be ready to pitch bend notes and it's usually best to lay them down one horn at a time on separate tracks and pan each track nicely.

I'm being picky though - I thought the song was way better than average and had a very good feel! :)
 
bozmillar said:
the drums stand out as fake. I don't know if it's because every person in the world uses EZdrummer (myself included), but I can't stand the way it sounds out of the box. I think it can sound pretty good with some tweaking though.

Horns sound more real, but hearing it, I wouldn't think that they were.

I completely understand the want to get real sounding fake instruments. I think that's what I spend most of my brain power on when I record. It's more a self gratification thing though, because I hear professionally recorded songs all the time with very fake sounding instruments even when they aren't supposed to sound fake.
Click to expand...
Yeah, any pop song recorded in the '80's....
 
Rokket said:
Yeah, any pop song recorded in the '80's....
Click to expand...

Yes, and I think that's why the drums didn't bother me, because they fit the song.

To me if drums are fake or real I could care less about. It's like Cher's hair - it doesn't matter if it's fake or real, what matters is if it works.
 
dintymoore said:
Yes, and I think that's why the drums didn't bother me, because they fit the song.

To me if drums are fake or real I could care less about. It's like Cher's hair - it doesn't matter if it's fake or real, what matters is if it works.
Click to expand...
You do mean her hair and not the 200 other parts that are no longer her, right? ;)
 
Rokket said:
You do mean her hair and not the 200 other parts that are no longer her, right? ;)
Click to expand...

Ha! Actually since I won't get to touch any of the 200 I'd say that it doesn't matter if any part of Cher is real or fake as long as it works!

Now, if I got to touch them, I always prefer "real"!
 
Firstly, the song is Ok, short and sweet and to the point, doesn't outstay it's welcome. I quite like it. I couldn't identify the horns but whatever those sounds at the end, I liked them. They rounded the song off well.
I kind of agree with dintymoore on this, though the drums sound 'fake', the issue is really to do with whether they work or not and in my opinion, they do on this track. I've recently come to realize that there are tons of songs from the last 50 years that I love that have drum sounds {more particularly snare sounds} that I'm no fan of. But that doesn't stop me digging the song. Same with other instruments.
VSTs were a Godsend for me. I began recording on a multitrack in '92 and for years I dreamed of meeting horn players, strings players, sitarists etc. I used to pass music academies trying to pluck up the courage to go in there and ask if there were any players that could help me with my hobby but I never did. It just sounded so lame !:o I play bass, guitar and percussion and could turn my hand to mandolin, various keyboards under pressure {and with much varispeed cheating:laughings:}, double bass and cello. I had friends that sing, play keyboards, drums, flutes, clarinets, varied percussion, violins so I'd use their skills where I could. But the organizing was a pain in the patootie.
Then I heard about VSTs in 2004 and when I actually played some and heard some, I was nearly blown away. I say nearly because not all VSTs are particularly good. I'm a real stickler for authentic sounds. In the 80s and 90s, the instrument sounds on synths were, in my opinion, hopeless. To put it bluntly, if their authenticity of sound was required to save my life.............I'd be dead:D. Good VSTs, being actual samples of someone actually playing said instrument, are on a different level altogether. Bozmillar makes a great point when he says that he spends most of his brain power getting VSTs to sound real when he records. It took me a long time to really get that together in my head. Each instrument has a series of parameters that need to be tweaked to one's satisfaction. And you can't play them like a keyboard or they sound unreal. And what's the point of going to the trouble of having, say, a trumpet sound if it's not going to sound like one ?!? I find it useful to put myself in the mind of, for example, a french horn player, if I'm 'playing' the french horn. Play the keys as though I'm blowing. Record each instrument separately {if you're doing, say, a brass section} like dintymoore suggested. Be aware of things like the attack of an instrument. And in the final mix, try not to have something too upfront unless it sounds 100% genuine, which things can. Mix it into the general soundscape with the treble cut slightly so it's not too bright.
I still use as many real instruments as is available, with a little colouring done by the VSTs. There are good VST packages out there like Miroslav philharmonic {GPO was the first VST I ever got and I liked it. Then I heard Miroslav....}, Sampletank {a good general one with loads of good sounds}, Zero - G harmonica, Swar systems {if you like Indian stuff}, First call horns, M-TRON {mellotron}, B4 {organ}, Lounge lizard {electiric piano}, Celtic instruments and alot more besides.
The one that came with Cubase 5 (Halion) wasn't so hot in my opinion.
It's interesting just how many songs out there in pro-land use fake sounding instruments. Sometimes they actually are real but recorded to sound a particular way ! I treat the sampled 'drums' in just about all post early 90s R&B that I have as an instrument in itself.
 
For me, VST's are a necessary evil as I would rather use live instruments instead but, that debate aside, I'm really impressed of how the Brass sounds overall in this piece. When I was auditioning sample libraries I didn't care much for Garritan because I thought they sounded too synthy, especially the strings. However, you've done a pretty good job here with them.

The thing with VST's is I think you have to use them for what they are specified for. For example, I use Vienna Symphonic Library and they are the best sampled library for Classical styled music on the market, hands down. However, if you're trying to do the Tito Puente brass sound... ahh... yeah not so good.

In this context, I would say not bad for Garritan.
 
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