Do I need gate with lots of knobs?

J

janusz konar

New member
Im planning to buy hardware 4 channel gate for mixing drums.
I can buy used beringher xr2400 locally for cheap. It seems to have less options then some other more expensive gates...it does not have attack knob, I guess attack time is auto adjusted. Will it work? Will it be fast enough? It also doesnt have decay knob.

What do you think?
 
Are you recording to a DAW ? If so record without the gates and then use a gate plugin in your DAW at mix time. If you record with the gate then you run the risk of getting a perfect performance only to find that your gate missed a few hits that ruin the take.
 
Why do you feel you need to gate your drums, let alone needing 4 of them? Just asking.
 
I dont want to print gate to tape, I want to use it in mixing process, or for monitoring while tracking.
Im recording to alesis hd24 hard disc recorder and mixing on a console. I dont use DAW.

I will be using md421's on 3 toms next session, and Im guessing I will get huge amounts of bleed due to drummers rig setup (cymbal basher, cymbals close to the toms)
I was thinking about using gate to monitor while tracking even, just to avoid hearing al that spill. I really like md421 on toms but the spill sound can be ugly.
 
If you're having problems with too much spill in the tom mics and don't like the sound, then a gate is probably the answer, yes.

I've used plenty of Behringer kit before, it does the job (just about) but the overall quality isnt great (putting a channel through it without any processing noticably lowers the fidelity of the sound in some cases).

There are plenty of alternatives, and their newer stuff is better but still the bare minimmum quality - its cheap enough new (and has warranties etc) so I'd go that route rather than one in dubious condition if you must.
 
Using gates to fix bleed is generally less effective than people think. Using a crappy analog gate is going to do things to the signal that aren't all that great and can't be undone.

If you just put the overheads and kick in his monitor mix he may back off the cymbal bashing a bit and hit the toms a little harder.
 
You could also play with your overhead mic setup - there are plenty of different ways to do this with one or more mics and they all sound different.

Have a look around the internet for drum mic'ing techniques and you'll find plenty. They all take a bit of practise and thought to work on so it's best to try them out for the first time with somebody you know (who will put up with extra experimentation).

Also this - it's more important than is widely discussed in 'how to record stuff' literature online:
If you just put the overheads and kick in his monitor mix he may back off the cymbal bashing a bit and hit the toms a little harder.
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janusz konar said:
Can you elabotate on that? You mean signal quality degradation?
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I mean that when the tom gate opens and closes the bleed turns on and off, modulating the tone of the cymbals in an unnatural way. With less bleed that wouldn't be as much of a problem, but then you probably wouldn't need a gate at all.

Cheap analog gates are harder to set and don't respond in an ideal fashion. Once you gate the analog signal you can't "un-gate" it. You're stuck with the results. And I've used some Behringer dynamics processors (Multicom Pro, I think) that added grunge to the signal, even in bypass. If you truly need to gate the toms then do it after tracking.

In general, if a performer is giving me sounds that are problematic it's my job to be sure they hear the problem then and there so they have the opportunity to correct it at the source. I've spent too many hours of my life fixing things in the mix when it should have been played or recorded better.
 
I mix in the analog domain, using a multitrack and an analog console. I use a gate on the toms, sometimes on snare and kick, if you set this up correctly it will sound fine. However it is not the solution to all problems (but thats another story). The beringher xr2400 works fine, I have one, the frequency filters are very handy and the attack and release are handy also, infact the beringher xr2400 is better than a lot of so called Name brand gates.

Do not track the drums with the noise gate, you cannot undo what the gate does during tracking, only us it for mixing, and then only if required.

Alan.
 
I usually have gates just to clean up the overall sound a bit, to take out that slightly ringing tom (ringing with the kick for example) or if the snare sound suffered due to tom bleed I may use it to fix that. Due to the fact that I use the overheads a lot in my mixes (the most important mics on the kit) the gates don't sound as severe when in action as they would if the tom/snare mics where way up in the mix.

I do sometimes use a gate on the snare or kick to achieve a sound that I am looking for, I try to keep the toms sounding natural.

Alan.
 
That's a whole different thing from attempting to fix bad bleed. That's more or less how I use them live. There's often a bass amp nearby making the kick resonate inappropriately, but it's not the bleed that I'm gating.
 
Sounds like it'll do the job to be honest.

If the intent is for mixdown/monitor mixes only then it'll be fine.
 
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One little forgotten noise gate that works very well is the Behringer Intelligate, it is only 2 channels but the flexibility of this thing is great, very good on snare and kick. If you can find one grab it.

Don't listen to all the chat about "adding grunge to the signal" and "I would not use anything Behringer", the Behringer noise gates are fine to use. I agree that not all Behringer gear is good, but also you can't put all products under one blanket so to speak.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
Don't listen to all the chat about "adding grunge to the signal" and "I would not use anything Behringer", the Behringer noise gates are fine to use. I agree that not all Behringer gear is good, but also you can't put all products under one blanket so to speak.
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I have several pieces of Behringer gear so I'm not against the brand. If you've had better experiences with their gates I'll take your word for it, but on more than one occasion mixing at clubs where simply removing the insert cable connected to a Behringer compressor in bypass substantially cleaned up the sound.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I have several pieces of Behringer gear so I'm not against the brand. If you've had better experiences with their gates I'll take your word for it, but on more than one occasion mixing at clubs where simply removing the insert cable connected to a Behringer compressor in bypass substantially cleaned up the sound.
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I suppose it depends which ones LOL, I have 2 x Composers but both are very early 1st series models, they had a good reputation and sound great, based on the Drawmer design apparently. They were also not cheap to buy at the time. I do not like the later versions as much, I thought the buttons were cheap and I did not like the lit buttons at all, but the composer is a better model all round then some of the others.

Never had a problem with the gates, no sound difference when plugged in.

Alan.
 
The early Composers have a good reputation. I think the one I had trouble with was an Autocom. I've had nothing but bad luck with their active direct boxes. Never has one made it all the way through a set. I trust ten year old Rapco passives more than 6 month old Behringer actives. On the other hand I like my DSP1100P, DSP1124P and DCX2496 well enough.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
The early Composers have a good reputation. I think the one I had trouble with was an Autocom. I've had nothing but bad luck with their active direct boxes. Never has one made it all the way through a set. I trust ten year old Rapco passives more than 6 month old Behringer actives. On the other hand I like my DSP1100P, DSP1124P and DCX2496 well enough.
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I also had a problem with the Active DI I bought (DI100?), it seemed to have a dodgy pad switch, however it kind of fixed itself up LOL. I did a tour with a few active stereo DI's the DI20, and they kept going, however they were in the back of a sequencer rack and kept out of trouble. I have a couple of the passive DI's DI400P's which I keep on hand for emergencies and they are OK, and cheap, anyway we are off track now from the original thread LOL, sorry Mods, I was never a fan of the autocom compressor so that may be the problem you had :) my point that I was trying to make was that some of the gear is fine and some not so fine.

Just to stay off track a little longer, my favourite DI box is a hand made built like a brick thing that a local tech made in the 1970's, best sounding DI I have, spent years in my tool box as a spare until I tried it on a recording, wow, stays in the studio now.

Alan.
 
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