DITHERING...A few questions...

R

RAMI

Guest
I did a search first but couldn't find the answers I'm looking for.

I understand what dithering does. Well, "understand" is stretching it, I don't think I "understand" much. I should say that I've read what it does and realise why it's needed.

My question pertains more specifically to Wavelab. The manual says that any time I go down in bit rate (24 to 16, etc...) I should dither. Is this a generally accepted truth???

If I should dither, then is there a difference in programs? Wavelab has an "Internal" dithering, but also gives the option of using Apogee's UV22HR, WAVES IDR and the Waves L1. Is one better than the other???

If I'm already using the L1 as my limiter, since it has Dithering settings in each pre-set, does that mean I'm already dithering, or do I need to also access Wavelab's Dithering section and select a Dithering program seperate from that???

I know that's alot of questions, but I think they're all related...I hope...Thanx in advance to any response to any or all these questions.
 
Dithering--changing the bit depth..ie from 24-16
resampling..changing the sample rate--ie from 44.1 to 96

you cant go down in bit depth without dithering..thats what dithering is so it isnt a generally accepted truth...it is the only truth....
there are sonic differences in the dithering algorithms...I prefer Waves IDR..but Apogee UV22 is also very nice(it is what apogee uses on all their products...they invented it). It is a matter of preference..let your ears tell you which sounds better.but there isnt one that is"better"functionally...they all do the same thing..its just the way that noise is applied to the signal that is different.
Dithering/resampling is necessary to go from say 24 bit to cd (redbook is the industry term for cd audio) because cd is 16/44.1 so you would resample say if it was 24/96 you would RESAMPLE the 96 to 44.1 and then DITHER from 24 to 16.

l1 settings arent dither settings..they are compression settings.
so yes, use a seperate dither algorithm'

Conventional wisdom is to do ALL edits, fades, effects..BEFORE resampling and dithering..because you will have started with more information...thus more to work with=better.

again just listen to the different ones.. and see what you like

teddy



RAMI said:
I did a search first but couldn't find the answers I'm looking for.

I understand what dithering does. Well, "understand" is stretching it, I don't think I "understand" much. I should say that I've read what it does and realise why it's needed.

My question pertains more specifically to Wavelab. The manual says that any time I go down in bit rate (24 to 16, etc...) I should dither. Is this a generally accepted truth???

If I should dither, then is there a difference in programs? Wavelab has an "Internal" dithering, but also gives the option of using Apogee's UV22HR, WAVES IDR and the Waves L1. Is one better than the other???

If I'm already using the L1 as my limiter, since it has Dithering settings in each pre-set, does that mean I'm already dithering, or do I need to also access Wavelab's Dithering section and select a Dithering program seperate from that???

I know that's alot of questions, but I think they're all related...I hope...Thanx in advance to any response to any or all these questions.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
BigRay said:
l1 settings arent dither settings..they are compression settings.
Click to expand...

Thanx for the response, it was very helpful.

But I have to differ on what you said about the L1. I understand that it is a compressor and it has compression settings. But on the right side of it, there are DITHERING settings apart from the COMPRESSION settings.

It has settings for DITHER, SHAPING and DOMAIN (analog/digital)
 
Just saw your second post...Cool!!! I'll check that out and see (or hear)...This is a whole new thing for me...your comparison link is exactly what I need to train my ears...Thanx, Ray.
 
http://www.mtsu.edu/~dsmitche/rim420/reading/rim420_Dither.html

No problem , Rami. You were right about the dither stuff....if you are going to cd...the dither setting should be 16. noise shaping..see below..it is more of a preference thing..analog or digital--self explanatory

ABOUT DITHER AND NOISE SHAPING
Dithering and Noise shaping are two independent, but complementary,
techniques to improve the perceived quality of sound after it has been requantized.
As will be explained here in some detail, each technique is
responsible for the improvement of a different subjective quality of the noise
imposed by re-quantization. Therefore, each can be used separately to
improve that specific quality.
Dithering is done in order to change the character of the quantization noise to
more closely resemble analog hiss, rather than digital quantization noise. The
main effect of dithering is to reduce (or, in case of type1, virtually eliminate) all
correlation between the quantization noise and the original signal, thus
reducing (eliminating) non-linear distortion typical of digital quantization noise.
The dithering process 'exchanges' these distortions for a steadier analog-hiss
quality signal.
Noise shaping is done in order to optimize the distribution of overall noise
energy across the spectrum. This optimization is according to the ear's
sensitivity. This means a decrease in noise (whether distortion or hiss) in the
ear's sensitive areas (1 to 6kHz), is 'exchanged' for an increase of noise in
less sensitive areas (above 15kHz, toward Nyquist).
Hopefully this has helped you see that in both techniques, the issue is about
'exchanging' the character and frequency content of noise (hiss & distortion)
according to subjective criteria.
How do these processes help 'capture' 3 more bits of detail? The easiest
analogy is to point to dithering in graphics, which is exactly the same process,
and exactly the same type of psycho-perceptual model. The brain is capable
of perceiving detail that is lower than a noise floor (in this case, dither).
However, quantization noise is highly correlated to the signal; in other words,
it is related to and governed by the signal. Dithering makes this noise become
uncorrelated (as dither is a random signal), therefore allowing the brain to
perceive the detail. The noise-shaping then helps to shift the energy of the
noise to a less sensitive area of hearing.
DITHER
1. No dither <off>. This is not quite normal truncation but rounding to the 24th
bit without adding any dither. It gives a high degree of nonlinear distortion
at low levels. There is actually no reason to turn dither Off in normal use.
The singular reason would be to provide a 24bit transparent (perfect clone)
output from the input; it's easier to just use the Bypass button! Even if you
are using an external dithering system to achieve your final desired
wordlength, you should use the L2's IDR to dither to a 24bit output.
2. IDR type1 dither. This dither is a wide-band dither. type1 adds a certain
amount of noise causing a 5dB increase in background noise compared to
no dither. It completely eliminates all low-level distortion and signal-dependent
modulation effects. The result is a very transparent and clean lowlevel
sound with a high resolution, most resembling the steady low-level
Waves L2 software guide page 11 of 18
hiss of an excellent quality analog system, and in lieu of digital
quantization noise. This is the "purist" technology. It is designed for no
nonlinear distortion or modulation noise at low levels, and combines
optimal dither noise with psychoacustic noise shaping. type1 is also
optimized to cause minimal side effects when used with stereo signals.
type1 is the recommended choice for use when processing high quality
mastering applications. By combining level maximization (peak controlling)
and IDR processing, 16bit audio created from 20 or 24bit masters this way
can have an apparent resolution of 19 bits, more than an 18dB
improvement! When signals might be subjected to more than one stage of
processing and quantization back to 16bits, the design of resolutionenhancement
must satisfy additional requirements than a technology
designed just for one-stage use. If applied several times in succession, a
digital resolution enhancement technology optimized for one-stage CD
mastering can produce unwanted side-effects. Waves type1 technology,
however, is the first optimized for use at every processing stage, allowing
for the effects of cascading and subsequent signal processing, if needed.
3. IDR type2 dither. This dither is a narrow-band dither, adds virtually no
audible noise, and so is nearly 5dB quieter than type1, but with some lowlevel
distortion. However, this distortion is generally much lower than with
no dither at all. type2 is of a unique kind designed to minimize the amount
of noise added, thereby giving a lower noise level than the IDR type1
process, but at the expense of some low level distortion. type2 does have
some advantages for high quality mastering as well, and it is purely your
choice whether the ultimate in low distortion of type1 is preferred, or the
additional reduction in noise of type2.
NOISE SHAPING
Another way to decrease the perceived level of noise is to "shape" the
frequency content of the noise so it matches the ear's sensitivity curves. In
basic terms, noise shaping shifts the noise to the frequency ranges where we
hear it the least. The three options of Noise shaping provided on L2 push
more of the noise energy to higher frequencies above 15kHz and toward
Nyquist, where our ears are least sensitive, and reducing the noise energy at
lower frequencies. The three Noise shaping options progressively differ in the
amount of this "shifting action". The L2 features ninth-order noise shaping for
optimal wordlength reduction quality.
1. Off. No noise shaping, resulting in more audible noise, (and distortion if
dither is not used). The result has equal noise (distortion) levels at all
frequencies, which is not optimal from a psychoacustic point of view.
2. Moderate. This typically reduces perceived hiss (or distortion if dither is
not used) by around 6dB. The HF noise gain is about 9dB for 44.1kHz.
3. Normal. This typically reduces perceived hiss (or distortion if dither is not
used) by around 12dB. The HF noise gain is about 15dB for 44.1kHz. (In
addition to being very suitable for creation of Production Masters, using
Normal with type1 dithering was also designed to be excellent for masters
that would be processed again for any reason, including consecutive redithering,
with an accumulation characteristic that is optimized to be
minimal.)
Waves L2 software guide page 12 of 18
4. Ultra. This gives the greatest perceived hiss/distortion reduction, typically
18dB. The HF noise gain is about 23dB for 44.1kHz. Ultra is a very highquality
setting, suitable only for use at the very last stage of mastering
high-resolution audio (16bit and longer wordlengths) targeted for highquality
digital media. It is best to use Ultra in the last stage of audio
preparation (Production Master). Due to the HF gain, it is theoretically
possible that the relatively high amount of high frequency energy could
cause undesirable side effects if the signal is going to be processed or
digitally edited again. However, with many thousands of L1-processed
masters (L1 is the software plug-in that led to the development of the L2
hardware), no such situations have been reported or observed. Since it is
theoretically possible, we wish to inform you of it.
You can hear the effect of Noise shaping by itself by setting Dither type to Off
and selecting one of the Noise shaping options while monitoring the output. Of
course, the effect of Noise shaping is even greater when used with type1 or
Type-2 dithering, since Noise shaping reduces the audibility of the added
dither noise.
Now try the full effect of IDR technology by listening to the same material, with
both IDR types and different kinds of noise shaping. The most obvious places
to examine are notes or reverb during the end of the sound, or "tail". It is
during this time that quantization error is most audible, although it is present
on all low-level signals (such as elements that are soft in a mix, etc.)
If you don't feel you fully understand the tradeoffs between IDR and Noise
shaping settings, the option that will generally work well for CD-mastering is
type1 with Normal noise shaping. For minimum noise with 16bit and greater
sources, type2 Ultra. For maximum resolution, type1 Ultra.
The noise reduction figures given here apply to sampling rates of 44.1 or
48kHz. They are even better for doubled sampling rates. If audibility of noise
were the only factor, the choice would almost always be to use Ultra noise
shaping, but in some situations, heavy noise shaping of the Ultra kind can
theoretically have some disadvantages, and the alternate settings, such as
Normal or Moderate may be better.
For 16bit applications, Ultra shaping should be avoided in the following
situations:
(a) Subsequent digital editing, when the signal is subjected to later editing. At
the edit points, an extreme noise shaping might cause low-level, yet audible
"clicks" in rare cases when played on very inexpensive CD players. An
example application in which you would avoid use of Ultra shaping would be
on CD's with production music or sound effects libraries that would certainly
be subject to further digital editing.
(b) Poor Error Correction, i.e. when a signal is destined for a carrier medium
with poor error correction, such as CDs pressed in pressing plants with poor
quality control. When errors that are not properly corrected occur, the Ultra
setting, like all forms of heavy noise shaping and other resolution
enhancement technologies, tends to cause audible background crackles,
especially on very cheap CD players. While these effects generally don't
occur on the majority of mid- or hi-fi CD players, they can be noticeable on
very cheap products. The amount of such crackles on poor pressings is
Waves L2 software guide page 13 of 18
greatly reduced by the Normal noise shaping. Of course it can be argued that
listeners with very cheap players may not be interested in high-quality
reproduction at all!
(c) Subsequent equalization before duplication (not by the user!), when heavy
treble boost equalization is subsequently employed. (Again, we're referring to
EQ by a pre-mastering person before duplication, not if the user boosts
the treble on their system. For the user to do so is fine, and is up to them.)
This can cause the strongly boosted higher frequencies used by Ultra noise
shaping to become so high in level that they might feed excessive noise
energy into loudspeakers. Therefore Ultra shaping is best avoided in
situations where subsequent equalization may be used in pre-mastering, such
as in a compilation. However, if the mastering is done correctly the first time,
large treble boosts would be quite unnecessary, and is somewhat moot in this
context. Much less HF gain is used with the Normal and Moderate noise
shapers (all of which could be observed on a real-time analyzer, such as
Waves PAZ psychoacustic Analyzer).
Waves L2 software guide page 14 of 18
Chapter 5 - 16-bit (and higher) mastering
Here are the basic steps of using L2 in a 16-bit, 44.1/48kHz application.
These steps also apply to 24, 22 and 20- bit mastering.
• All processing, EQ, sample rate conversion, dynamic changes, etc. MUST
be done before L2 processing. The L2-Ultramaximizer should be the last
processing of the file. Ideally, dithering occurs only once.
• Using a 16 or higher bit input file, set the Threshold for desired peak
limiting. For suggestions on how much limiting to do for certain
applications, see the Specific Applications chapter. In general, set
Threshold for about 4-6 dB of Gain Reduction in the Attenuation meter.
• Now take the Output Ceiling up to the maximum peak output you desire.
You can take this Output all the way to 0.0 dB without any clipping. For
CD’s, a recommended setting is -0.3dB; for more information read the
Peak Clipping section. Factory Presets already set the Out Ceiling control
to the recommended value.
• Leave the ARC (auto-release) button engaged all the time.
• Set Quantize output for 16-bit (for CD/DAT; or 22, 20, 18 for higher
archival or mastering medium if your hardware supports the transfer of 16+
bits).
• Set Dither type (type1 or type2). IDR type1 is recommended for most
high-resolution applications.
• Set Shaping (Moderate, Normal, Ultra, none). Ultra and Normal are
recommended for most high-resolution applications.
Waves L2 software guide page 15 of 18
Chapter 6 - Use the L2 last
It is recommended that L2 be used as the final process after all dynamic and
EQ adjustments have been made.
Only when all these processes are finalized should the question of peak level
be addressed. Instinctively, it might seem appropriate to Normalize the file
once all other processing has taken place, but in practice, it may be better to
set the peak levels to around 1dB below clipping using L2. For an explanation
of this reasoning, see the notes on digital clipping.
The choice of IDR setting depends on the final use to which the file will be put.
Type1 or 2, Normal, is recommended for most work. Type1 or 2, Ultra, is
considered best for final mass production of 16bit and greater masters, and
for producing a complete disc master which will undergo no further edits. An
example of this would be a production master CD run off from a hard disk
editing system in a single pass and where no further editing is anticipated (all
timing is finalized). This PMCD would then be transferred unchanged through
to the glass mastering process.
When using programs like MasterList or MasterList CD which in effect string
together separate regions of the soundfile, you must perform destructive
processing with the L2. Since MasterList/CD is a form of editing (playing
regions/songs with silence or splices between audio regions/songs), it is
recommended to use Normal noise-shaping with either Dither type1 or type2.
However, thousands of IDR-processed masters have been produced with
type1 Ultra with no unusual problems whatsoever.
If you must process or EQ any previously L2-processed file, you will need to
create headroom by lowering input on those later processes, then probably
re-limit to restore the average level.
Waves L2 software guide page 16 of 18
Chapter 7 - Important notes on digital clipping
The digital words representing an audio signal at each moment have a
maximum possible positive value and a minimum possible negative value
defined by the bit depth of the file format. Any attempt to force an audio signal
beyond these maximum permitted values, for example, by applying excessive
gain, will result in the audio signal being clipped. Clipping distortion generally
sounds quite unpleasant and is to be avoided.
However, there are other ways in which a signal can become clipped, and
some of these are far from obvious.
PEAK-NORMALIZED SIGNALS
A 'Normalize’ process allows a file to be processed in such a way that the
maximum peak level within the file just reaches (but does not exceed) the
digital zero or clipping point. This is obviously desirable as it means that the
file is as ‘loud’ as is possible without clipping, and in turn, this maintains the
best signal-to-noise ratio, especially at low bit word lengths.
In situations where a higher average sound level is required, L2’s peak limiter
allows the typical level of signals to be even further increased by gently pulling
down the gain, without audible nonlinear distortion, of waveform peaks. L2
can simultaneously re-scale the audio data so that the limited peak signals
approach or just reach digital zero.
However, by storing soundfiles at the maximum possible level, there is a risk
that any subsequent processing may take these peak levels too high,
resulting in clipping distortion. Peak limiting to 0dB, by whatever means,
leaves no margin for any subsequent increase in peak level. Intuitively, you
might think that simple gain reduction could be applied without incurring the
risk of clipping, and equally that any increase in gain would be sure to cause
clipping. This is true. You might also think that applying an EQ boost at any
frequency might result in clipping depending on the peak energy level within
the band being equalized. Again this is true.
What is far less obvious is that applying an EQ cut also runs the risk of
causing clipping. To prove this would take a lot of math, but the following
description should help get the point across.
At any instant, the peak level of a signal may be the result of several
components at different frequencies and at different phases relative to each
other. Some components will add while others will subtract, but what happens
if you ‘EQ out’ a frequency that would otherwise be subtracting from the peak
level by virtue of its phase? The peak is now higher than it was. For most
audio material, this effect will be relatively small, typically increasing peak
levels of the order of 0.3 dB, but is possible that under unfavorable
circumstances or with non-typical signals, the peak level could increase
significantly more than this.
If an effective peak limiter like the L2 is used, because it forces the signal to
skim the peak level more often, this likelihood of clipping in this way is further
increased.
In practice, filters attenuating mid or high frequency components tend to
cause the kind of increase in peak level described, but high pass filters that
attenuate the bass can sometimes cause much larger increases of peaks of
Waves L2 software guide page 17 of 18
the order of several dBs on heavily limited signals. The phase response of
certain high or low-pass filter types can also increase peak levels by up to 4
dB or thereabouts.
Bearing in mind what’s just been said, it might seem logical to keep the signal
peaking a few dB below digital zero until all processing has been carried out.
After that, you can safely normalize the signal–or can you?
A related problem with peak clipping can arise when a normalized soundfile or
signal is converted to a new sampling rate. The reason has to do with the
sample-rate conversion process itself, and during sample rate reduction,
the signal is effectively being filtered; the available audio frequency range is
smaller at lower sampling rates. Such filtering can increase peak sound levels
in exactly the same way as attenuating equalizers can. But even when
increasing sampling rate, an increase of peak level can occur. This is because
the continuous-time audio waveform is represented in the digital domain only
by its values at the sampling instants. It is perfectly possible for the peak
value of the continuous-time audio waveform to occur at instants lying
between two sampling instants, and thus to be higher than the peak value at
any of the sampling instants. When changing the sampling rate, new sampling
instants are chosen for the continuous-time audio waveform, and these new
sampling instants may coincide with an increased peak lying between the
original sampling instants. This is especially likely to occur with signals with a
lot of high frequencies, since such signal waveforms change more rapidly
between the sampling instants.
Though artificially contrived signals can be created to really show up this
problem, in real life an attenuation of at least 0.3 dB or so prior to conversion
should provide adequate protection against clipping. You might expect
sample-rate-converter designers to account for the possibility by designing in
a small amount of attenuation, and the cheap ones generally do not.
But can you safely normalize a file that you know is at the final sample rate?
Unfortunately not, because many compact disc players (and some other
digital consumer equipment) use over-sampling digital-to-analog converters
(DACs) to produce the analog signal fed to the amplifier. Such over-sampling
converters involve a sampling rate conversion process which can (and does!)
cause audible peak clipping. Once again, some designers appear to have
overlooked this problem, although not as widely as they did in earlier DAC
designs.
Waves L2 software guide page 18 of 18
Chapter 8 - Recommended settings
RECOMMENDED IDR SETTINGS
Any combination of dither and noise shaping can be used, but the following
settings are particularly recommended for different applications.
• General Purpose high-quality use, including material liable to be edited,
EQ'd, and re-dithered: type1 – Normal.
• Lowest Noise: type2 – Ultra.
• Low Noise/Highest quality (final production masters): type1 – Ultra.
• Low noise while allowing editing/EQ: type2 – Normal.
• High Quality, with lowest risks of spurious noises on edits or cheap CD
players: type1 – Moderate.
• Low noise, with lowest risk of spurious noises on edits or cheap CD
players: type2 – Moderate.
RECOMMENDED PEAK LIMITER SETTINGS
The recommended settings for the L2 Peak limiter would be highly related to
the processed program material. A general note we can offer is to use ARC
for the optimal release time and the smoothest sounding results. The Peak-
Hold numeric field under the Attenuation meter can also provide some
important feedback, specially if you see a number under –10dB down to –
30dB. In this case you will know that major attenuation is happening and you
should be aware where in the program this happens and make sure it sounds
good to your ears!
For commercial Audio CD, some mastering engineers recommend a ceiling of
–0.3 dB to be safe from distortion due to playback system deficiencies.
 
OH man...I started reading and halfway through, my eyes started getting all watery...not because I was crying, but I just couldn't read any more...I am DEFINITELY going to print this...I can't thank you enough, my friend. I appreciate you sharing with me in a few minutes alot of what you know. Thanx.
 
Not a problem at all, Rami. I enjoy helping people out. It forces me to know my stuff, and keep myself up on the big topics.

Teddy
 
UB802 said:
Dithering is a process that you do the audio before you truncate so that the least significant bits become unneeded bits.
Click to expand...

Well, you got everything else right except for this.
Dithering is noise. It's that simple. The LSB does not suddenly become unneeded - in fact it is needed more than ever.
The idea is to keep the LSB switched "on" by using low-level noise. This reduces quantization distortion caused by the LSB "rounding" its on/off state to the nearest value. Basically you are trading distortion for noise. It will also allow you to hear signals that are below the noise floor. The noise will be louder than the signal, but Noise Shaping can make it less audible to the human ear.
 
UB802 said:
Errrrrrrrrrr...check you facts bubba.

Reducing the bit depth is call TRUNCATE. Simply, you remove the least significant bits.

Dithering is a process that you do the audio before you truncate so that the least significant bits become unneeded bits.

I could go on and on, but it is REALLY important that you have the terminology right. You can apply dithering to a file, and still keep the file as the same bit depth. To change the bit depth, you must truncate the file!

Get it?
Click to expand...

OK, I don't know who's right and who's wrong here...but since Ray helped me alot I'll just say this...Keep in mind that he's from Germany, so maybe his English might not be perfect and he might have made a slight mistake in terminology. Other than that, he does seem to know his stuff. You are American, as you announce at the bottom of your posts, so obviously, your English must be flawless, so I'm not saying you're wrong...Just pointing out that even if Ray might have made a mistake in terminology, he does seem to know what he's talking about. Thanx for the correction, though.
 
Join K.I.S.S.

All dithering is, is to add noise; and it is added at the last stage of mixdown.

So whatever the last plugin is, turn on the dither on the rest leave it off.

Simple enough
 
bleyrad said:
Well, you got everything else right except for this.
Dithering is noise. It's that simple. The LSB does not suddenly become unneeded - in fact it is needed more than ever.
The idea is to keep the LSB switched "on" by using low-level noise. This reduces quantization distortion caused by the LSB "rounding" its on/off state to the nearest value. Basically you are trading distortion for noise. It will also allow you to hear signals that are below the noise floor. The noise will be louder than the signal, but Noise Shaping can make it less audible to the human ear.
Click to expand...

Wow, I guess nobody's perfect.. Thanx, bleyrad.
 
bigwillz24 said:
Join K.I.S.S.

All dithering is, is to add noise; and it is added at the last stage of mixdown.

So whatever the last plugin is, turn on the dither on the rest leave it off.

Simple enough
Click to expand...

Hehe...We all seem to be posting at the same time all of a sudden...So Bigwillz, if I am using the L1 (Which I realise is a compressor) and it has DITHERING settings applied, like I mentioned above, I guess I don't need to Dither again, if I undersatnd you correctly???
 
Ok, a question. If you load a 24-bit file into Sound Forge and then save as a 16-bit/44.1 file, does it do all these conversions automatically? Or should all the dithering, reshaping, etc., be done BEFORE saving as 16-bit?
 
RAMI said:
Hehe...We all seem to be posting at the same time all of a sudden...So Bigwillz, if I am using the L1 (Which I realise is a compressor) and it has DITHERING settings applied, like I mentioned above, I guess I don't need to Dither again, if I undersatnd you correctly???
Click to expand...

Uhmmm the L1 is not a compressor its a limiter... What distinguishes it as such is the ratio notice there isn't one. Thats because the ratio is set to brickwall nothing gets above the threshold.

The L1 as i've seen it used is normally on the 2mix and the last plugin in the chain normally.
 
7string said:
Ok, a question. If you load a 24-bit file into Sound Forge and then save as a 16-bit/44.1 file, does it do all these conversions automatically? Or should all the dithering, reshaping, etc., be done BEFORE saving as 16-bit?
Click to expand...

I think the conversion is automatic. The second question I'm not so sure and would like to know myself but I think you must add it before.
 
Dither should not just be used at the last stage, but everywhere where bits are being truncated. EG some plugins process at 48 or 64 bit, you definitely want to make sure their internal dither to 24 bit is turned on.

On the other hand noise-shaping should only be applied ONCE, and it should be the very last process applied, just before going to 16-bit.
 
bigwillz24 said:
Uhmmm the L1 is not a compressor its a limiter... What distinguishes it as such is the ratio notice there isn't one. Thats because the ratio is set to brickwall nothing gets above the threshold.

The L1 as i've seen it used is normally on the 2mix and the last plugin in the chain normally.
Click to expand...
Yes...sorry, forgive me...I used the word "compressor" but it is a "limiter"...you're right....Anyway...It also has dithering settings on it...So does this mean that I don't need to apply any other Dithering software, since it is the last plug-in on my chain and does seem to dither???
 
RAMI said:
Yes...sorry, forgive me...I used the word "compressor" but it is a "limiter"...you're right....Anyway...It also has dithering settings on it...So does this mean that I don't need to apply any other Dithering software, since it is the last plug-in on my chain and does seem to dither???
Click to expand...
If you have its dither turned on, and set to the target bit-depth (likely 16-bit) then that is correct.
 
Thanx alot...I'm glad you were able to K.I.S.S. and actually answer my simple question....Thank you.
 
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