delays and bouncing

[andrushkiwt]

that might sound confusing. let me clear that up...

For a guitar track, I used Amplitube 4 with delay/harmonator/octave pedals before the amp/cab. At the end of this current track, I play the final note and then that exact combo of pedals leaves a long sustain of ringing verging on feedback. Cool. That's exactly what I wanted.

But then, after I print the track (save some resources in the DAW), the ringing stops and the track ends with the final note. Yes, I "cut" and faded, quickly, the waveform after the note because I usually make some noise with the guitar while putting it down. The easiest approach would be to simply hold still for a few seconds after hitting that final note and let the guitar do its delay thing or whatever "wanted" noise it's making. But I don't always remember to do that. So, the feedback didn't print. The bounced track literally stops with the final note and any ringing doesn't carry over.

Is my previously mentioned idea the only workaround/fix here? To record it with empty space after the note? Just checking if there's any option I'm using or not thinking of.

thnx

 

[gecko zzed]

Which DAW are you using?

When rendering, sometimes the render will stop at the end of the last note, and not take into account the 'tail' arising from various effects. In Reaper, for example, you can specify how much tail you want to include, and that would allow you to preserve your feedback. Your DAW may have this option somewhere. Alternatively, you could specify a time region that makes sure the tail is well inside a selected area.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Yes, that's what it's doing. It's stopping at the last note and cutting any tail off. I'm using Studio One 2 Pro. Any time someone has said "there's an option somewhere for that", Studio One has had that option...I just didn't know about it. So, good to know there is usually something. I'll dig further then. Thanks!

 

[Farview]

The answer will be one of two things.
1. Move the "end" marker down the timeline, so the bounce doesn't stop before the effects do.

2. Record 10.seconds of silence and butt it up to the fade out on the last note of that track.

Which one works depends on what your daw is stopping at, the end marker, or the longest piece of audio in the session.

 

[andrushkiwt]

2. Record 10.seconds of silence and butt it up to the fade out on the last note of that track.

aha! BUT! I tried that. It didn't work. The track just stopped and then went silent. The tail didn't carry over. It was only the silence I recorded.

 

[Farview]

aha! BUT! I tried that. It didn't work. The track just stopped and then went silent. The tail didn't carry over. It was only the silence I recorded.

WTF? What a pointless pos. Can you just mix it down with that track soloed and import that track?

 

[Steenamaroo]

aha! BUT! I tried that. It didn't work. The track just stopped and then went silent. The tail didn't carry over. It was only the silence I recorded.

So your DAW is rendering the duration of the waveform...That makes sense.
If you have delay/reverb tails, extending beyond the waveform, that you want to be included in the bounce make sure the wave form lasts for the total duration.
You'll probably need to insert silence at the end to do that.

 

[Jonesey9]

In Sonar, you can simply grab hold of the right hand edge of the clip containing the waveform and drag it for however long you want it to play (slip-editing)

You WILL pick up guitar noise if you move as much as a millimetre, let alone put the guitar down.

it's all about DISCIPLINE

 

[bouldersoundguy]

In the DAWs I've used you can select a section of the timeline and tell it to render that section regardless of where audio clips are. I just select the length of all the audio clips and widen the selection at the end to include enough time to allow effects to finish decaying.

 

[andrushkiwt]

So your DAW is rendering the duration of the waveform...That makes sense.
If you have delay/reverb tails, extending beyond the waveform, that you want to be included in the bounce make sure the wave form lasts for the total duration.
You'll probably need to insert silence at the end to do that.

Yes, it only takes what's in the waveform. I chopped the end of the waveform off because the raw track is noisy - i bumped things around and whatnot - but the audio has a nice tail delay/feedback. So, I chopped the end and faded it out quickly hoping that the tail would stay. It didn't. I tried recording silence and adding it to the end, but since it isn't the same waveform, but a new one, it just plays it without the tail, again, followed by silence.

I think I have 2 options.

1. record it IN THE FIRST PLACE with silence after for the duration of the tail.
2. try Gecko's suggestions to see if tails can be carried over even if i chop the waveform. (question on that: how would the DAW know there is a tail/sound there? Would it be searching/looking for any indication on the level meter, and when that level meter hits the bottom it stops the bounce? I just can't see how #2 would work in reality. Wouldn't it theoretically bounce to infinity? How does it "know" when the tail has ended?)

 

[andrushkiwt]

In the DAWs I've used you can select a section of the timeline and tell it to render that section regardless of where audio clips are. I just select the length of all the audio clips and widen the selection at the end to include enough time to allow effects to finish decaying.

yeah, i'll search for that. Maybe I'm doing the bounce shortcut or something. Like a quick bounce instead of a fully featured one, because when I highlight the track and select "bounce to new track" (that's Studio One's name for: bounce track, but keep inserts and FX), it just does it without asking me any questions or giving me options to select. There might be a "main screen"/option for bouncing settings somewhere.

Gruff has Studio One. Hopefully he sees this, or I'll PM him tomorrow if not. Glad to know I'm not the only one encountering this problem and that you guys know what I'm talking about.

 

[Farview]

Crossfire the silence at the end, so that it is one waveform. Like a punch-in. If it doesn't let you do that, you are either missing something simple, or your daw is the worst one into the universe.

 

[ashcat_lt]

2. try Gecko's suggestions to see if tails can be carried over even if i chop the waveform. (question on that: how would the DAW know there is a tail/sound there? Would it be searching/looking for any indication on the level meter, and when that level meter hits the bottom it stops the bounce? I just can't see how #2 would work in reality. Wouldn't it theoretically bounce to infinity? How does it "know" when the tail has ended?)

No. In Reaper we have the option to specify how long after the item ends that it will keep rendering. Without "tails" enabled, it renders the length of whatever audio is on the track and then stops. With it enabled it renders the length of the track plus that extra "tail time". So if you set the tail to like 1000ms, the new file is a second longer than the old one.

I can't tell you how to do it in Studio One, but it might be what you say about the "shortcut" vs "full render". Reaper has several different ways to do this kind of thing, but if we want to render a specific time selection (rather than just the length of a track plus "tails") we have to use the "long way".

I do have to say that the fact it doesn't carry the tails across over the silent item you added to the end is pretty distressing. How can you ever comp together multile takes of anything with effects on it?

 

[Steenamaroo]

I tried recording silence and adding it to the end, but since it isn't the same waveform, but a new one, it just plays it without the tail, again, followed by silence.

Crossfade? the silence at the end, so that it is one waveform. Like a punch-in. If it doesn't let you do that, you are either missing something simple, or your daw is the worst one into the universe.

Yeah, sorry. I thought that was obvious.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

This is what it looks like in Sony Vegas 6. If I double-click a clip I get what you see in the second pic. Then I grab the little yellow flag and drag it to the right.

No timeline selection:



Selection = length of clip:



Selection extended beyond length of clip:

 

[andrushkiwt]

...or your daw is the worst one into the universe.

No. It's me, not the DAW. I can assure you.

I might not have joined them together. I probably just scooted the new silence right up to the old one and didn't realize I need to join them. I can "merge events". That's what S1Pro calls it. Like I said, I am the problem here...not the software.

I'm not 2 years into this! hehe...figuring it out, figuring it out...little by little.

thnx everyone. I should be good now

 

[Steenamaroo]

Yeah, sorry for leaving that out.
If you can create or record post-silence then crossfade or merge or whatever, you should end up with the equivalent of playing the ending the pausing in silence for a few seconds.

By the time I get back to the computer and hit stop I usually have 10 seconds of 'silence' at the end of each take.
I use long delays a lot so if there's any post-take noises on there I pull them down with clip-gain.

That's pre-everything so it means the faders are still up and the effects are still heard, but recorded noises are not.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

1. Move the "end" marker down the timeline, so the bounce doesn't stop before the effects do.

^^^ Since you PMed me to ask (given that I use Studio One), I would do it the way Farview suggested. When you point your mouse to the right edge of the audio clip, the pointer will turn into a "<|>" symbol, then you just click on it and drag the end of the clip to the right as far as you need to.

 

[Farview]

What I was trying to describe was move the end marker of the session, not the audio clip.
He doesn't want to pull the end, because there is a lot of noise there, which is why he wants to add the silence.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I guess I misunderstood when he said that he stopped the recording before putting the guitar down so he wouldn't record the noise caused by putting the guitar down. Anyway, I would just grab the edge of the clip and extend it, then fade out if needed.