Dealing with idiotic band feedback

The text I highlighted... :facepalm:

You own a studio and you don't own the necessary gear to record? Really?

"Hey guys bring me $600 and find a driver with a van to move your gear cause I don't have anything here.
Can you also buy a couple of cables on your way here? And a coffee."

It's your job to have your own equipment ready for recording.
Do you really wanna use the band's equipment? Do you really want to use strings from 2004? Why don't you even use the $40 kick drum of the kid's garage?

So you're really recording someone and you ask them to bring their own gear. Gear that you don't know it sounds, gear you have never tested,
gear you've never used before, so it's all random?


Your job as an engineer is to provide the best for the guys that are paying you and if you don't even have the decency to use gear
that you know the results they're going to provide, before pressing the record button, then you're simply stealing money by charging more time guessing and hoping for the best.

You really can't give advice about problems that arise later, when you're giving advice of how to have the highest chance of getting problems later.
Of course you use the bands equipment. Do you really think a prog rock drummer is going to be able to do his thing on a 5 piece studio kit? Or a guitar player is going to give up his vintage jcm800 to use my dual rectifier? Or the country band coming in next week is going to be able to use the same setup that the death metal band is using this week?

Even the bigger studios I've worked at don't own that stuff. It's rented from SIR if something the band doesn't have is needed. Yes, there will be a couple amps, snares and guitars floating around the place, but certainly not everything you could possibly need for every situation that could walk in the door.
 
Of course you use the bands equipment. Do you really think a prog rock drummer is going to be able to do his thing on a 5 piece studio kit? Or a guitar player is going to give up his vintage jcm800 to use my dual rectifier? Or the country band coming in next week is going to be able to use the same setup that the death metal band is using this week?

Even the bigger studios I've worked at don't own that stuff. It's rented from SIR if something the band doesn't have is needed. Yes, there will be a couple amps, snares and guitars floating around the place, but certainly not everything you could possibly need for every situation that could walk in the door.

Bam! Truthbomb.
 
I always offer my gear, and I have decent gear...but I let the players choose.

I had a guitar player once who complained about not being able to get enough chunk/crunch from his Strat, and that he wished he brought his HB guitar. I went over to my wall of guitars and said, "here, try this one, it has plenty of crunch, since the PUs were old-school DiMarazio Super Distortion HBs.
He held it for 5 seconds...and said, naaa....I'm, not comfortable playing this instead of my own guitar.
We moved on with him playing his Strat.

You can't disrupt a player's or band's comfort zone just 'cuz you think your gear is better than theirs.
You roll with what works for them...but it's always good to have some gear you can offer to them if the recording process is going to be disrupted.
I have like 20 different kinds of guitar strings on hand...though I personally use just one kind for the most part.
I also keep like every imaginable style of guitar pick, by the dozens....just in case they are needed.
 
I always offer my gear, and I have decent gear...but I let the players choose.

I had a guitar player once who complained about not being able to get enough chunk/crunch from his Strat, and that he wished he brought his HB guitar. I went over to my wall of guitars and said, "here, try this one, it has plenty of crunch, since the PUs were old-school DiMarazio Super Distortion HBs.
He held it for 5 seconds...and said, naaa....I'm, not comfortable playing this instead of my own guitar.
We moved on with him playing his Strat.

You can't disrupt a player's or band's comfort zone just 'cuz you think your gear is better than theirs.
You roll with what works for them...but it's always good to have some gear you can offer to them if the recording process is going to be disrupted.
I have like 20 different kinds of guitar strings on hand...though I personally use just one kind for the most part.
I also keep like every imaginable style of guitar pick, by the dozens....just in case they are needed.

Yeah see, that to me is an ideal approach. They guy didn't have the right gear, you offered a solution, but the player wasn't comfortable with it and ultimately decided to plow ahead. You didn't go on some ego trip and force the issue. Kudos on that.
 
There are usually enough ego's floating around in the studio without the engineer getting his out for show and tell...
 
I'm going to close this thread for now until I have time to come back to it. Sorry OP, some reported posts flying around and I will look into it.
 
Customer Service Sucks - Dealing with the Pricks we mix

I wrote this whole big thing for that other thread, but by the time I hit Post, there were chickens loose on scales extreme danger!

So, my day job for the last way too long has been customer service of one sort or another. From coaxing timid Packers fans into a dimly lit courtyard off Bourbon street to a cell phone company who was #3 in customer service polls and dumped a whole lot of koney into making me #1. I'm not claiming to be an authority, or that its any kind of glamorous career, but I am pretty good at what I do, and it covers my expenses.

For those of us who just record ourselves for our own amusement, customer service and communications skills don't really come into it that often. Sometimes I do talk to myself, but...

If you're actually doing stuff for other people - even if there's no money involved or they're friends or family - then communication is very important. In a very real way, these are your customers and unless you can hire someone like me as a go-between to keep you from ever actually interacting with the clients (I'm open to offers ;) ) then you will from time to time be providing customer service. Call it client relations if you want to be snooty. It's all the same shit.

So here's some of the basic fundamental stuff they pounded into my head with powerpoints and role playing activities and checklists. It was written in the context of what to do when clients ask for things using language that is difficult to understand, but I think it applies in a more general sense to all of your interactions with your customers. It would be as important in a pre-production meeting as a mix revision request.


This is the customer service aspect of the job that way too many of us overlook. We spend hours studying and practicing all of these advanced techniques on the recording/mixing side, and never a thought to improving our communication skills. Ultimately I think it does come down to your communication skills. You need to be able to handle these conversations in such a way that overcomes their bumblefucking.

The first step is to take and hold the position that you really want to help them. You have to actually want these guys to get the best result possible given whatever constraints. When you lose track of that - start feeling like you're just meeting their demands - it goes downhill fast. You also have to believe that you can help. You are supposedly a professional. You have the tools, you have the skills and knowledge, and even if you don't know for sure how you're going to help, you have to believe that you can and will find a way. This might sound kind of general and vague, not directly to the OP question, but if you have the proper attitude, it means that you are going to get the through the conversation and come to a solution whatever it takes, which is the ultimate goal, right?

But how do you get through that conversation?

1) Listen carefully to what the customer is actually saying. A lot of people seem to only hear like the beginning and end of a sentence, and kind of just fill in the middle with their own bullshit. Sometimes, too, if we hear things that don't make sense - words or phrases we've never heard, references to things outside our experience or comfort zone - we often close down a bit and sometimes even substitute something we do understand into the conversation, so that we're not hearing what the customer is saying, but almost like what we would say. Make sure you've actually heard what the dude said.

2) Restate the issue. That doesn't mean parroting back to them. Paraphrase, interpret, explain to them your understanding of their stated concern. If it's not right, they'll let you know quick.

3) Ask probing questions. "What the fuck are you talking about?" does not qualify. With some clients you might be able to throw that in as a joke, but it'll be more effective if you identify the points that you're not getting and ask them to clarify those. "What do you mean by pointy?" This might lead to such things as pulling up some reference material. Anyway, if after restating, the customer doesn't agree that you know what they're talking about, ask some questions and then go back to number 1 above.

I think that covers the OP. It sounds simple and common sense, but - especially in really difficult situations - it takes discipline to pull it off. The rest of the story goes:

4) Offer an assurance statement. Now, you're not going to bust out with "I'd be happy to help with that", but you want to tell them you can do something for them. "I can do that" is fine, but what if you don't think you can? Well, remember what we talked about before? You can help somehow. You want to help somehow. You will help somehow.

5) Offer an action statement. It's great if this is a solid statement of "Here's what I can do about that" with exact details, but it can also a be maybe a list of options. Especially if they're asking for something you really can't do, you offer them options that might be close or even better. It's also perfectly acceptable to say that you're going to look into it. Yes, it's a way of way of saying "I don't have a fucking clue", but you can sell the idea that you know there's a solution and you know you can find it.

Try always to use real positive language. No, that doesn't mean talk like a new age mom on Xanax. Try night to say "might" or "should" or "I think" (when it comes to facts, you can say "I think that sounds awesome!", but not "I think I can help"). Use positive language like "can", "will", and "I know".

Or do what I do and tell them "This is my mix. I know what you're shooting for. You hired me to get it there. You've done your part, now I'll do mine." Which is to say that on the very rare occasions that I record other people I don't let them stand over my shoulder or second guess my decisions. Here's your mix, take it or don't.
 
Aha! Cheers for the long and well thought out answer! - I have a basic background in customer service but I've found it super easy to let the guard down when it comes to something that falls pretty much dead on the line between hobby and Job.

Discipline really is the key - taking the time to restate things, paraphrasing to make sure we are all on the same page is something I don't take enough time to do, looking back.
It's probably the most important part of working with other people once you've got the technical side up to a certain level, strange given that quite a few people here seem to do it but it's not mentioned often/at all from what I've seen.

The band in question are particularly difficult - they live a few hours travel away and come down to the studio when they're bored being high powered city types, they always have a way of saying 'that's amazing' when they leave the studio, then being incredibly fuzzy but very insistent on minor changes with the final mix ('it all sounds a bit synthetic overall' is my favourite). I'm loathe to sack them off as a client, but it's crossed my mind more than a couple of times, the hassle is only just covered by the modest rates I give them (known them for a long time now).

Probably very useful for people just starting to record other people to read this - I know it wouldve done me a world of good five years ago...
 
Yeah it's tough. I really do think a pre-reference is a good thing if you can get it. I've got some killer amps here so I've been doing some reamping for people lately. Sometimes they'll ask for "you know, a distorted sound". Lol. I'm like what? Come on. So I push them for an example. Anything. Give me someone's tone you like and we can try to get close to it. Don't just say "crunchy but smooth". That can be anything, like peanut butter.

I never appreciated crunchy peanut butter when I was younger, but now I really do.
 
I once had a drummer turn up at the studio (the band had booked a 10 hour day to record and mix 5 songs for a demo) with a CD of his favourite band because he wanted his drums to sound like the drums on the CD. My first question back to him was "do your drums sound like the ones on the CD?" what I really wanted to say is, do you think the drums on the CD had worn out heads, broken lugs, gaffer holding the snares wires and broken mounts like yours? Oh and also that they would have used the 10 hour day as pre-production on the drums alone. :facepalm:

We also had a band manager that was calling himself "Producer" that kept suggesting that we use "Reverse Gated Reverb" on almost everything we were talking about, he had read that it was a good effect. I ended up asking him if he actually knew what reverse gated reverb was and what it sounded like. :facepalm::facepalm:

Regarding instruments and amps, I do have a basic good sounding drum kit (1965 Ludwig), several bass amps and bass guitars, a Marshall valve guitar amp, some acoustic guitars, and several keyboards available for bands to use if needed (or really needed LOL), but they usually want to use their own gear.

Alan.
 
I once had a drummer turn up at the studio (the band had booked a 10 hour day to record and mix 5 songs for a demo) with a CD of his favourite band because he wanted his drums to sound like the drums on the CD. My first question back to him was "do your drums sound like the ones on the CD?" what I really wanted to say is, do you think the drums on the CD had worn out heads, broken lugs, gaffer holding the snares wires and broken mounts like yours? Oh and also that they would have used the 10 hour day as pre-production on the drums alone. :facepalm:


So many times. Unrealistic expectations perhaps - 'OOh im going into the studio and they're gonna make me sound like Metallica/whatever'

I guess it's very important to make sure musicians know that what they sound like on the day will be the sound of their record and that if they don't already sound like x, y or z they almost certainly wont sound like that on record.
 
I once had a drummer turn up at the studio .....

Haven't we all. I was working in a demo studio that me friend owned and we were getting a lot of Metal type bands. I can't tell you how many drummers we had come in the studio who wanted to sound like John Bonham. Of course they always had a single head bass drum with a big pillow stuffed up against the head, single headed toms with tape on them and so forth. These guys seem to think that there is a dial on the board where you just select the drum sound you want and it magically happens.
 
Haven't we all. I was working in a demo studio that me friend owned and we were getting a lot of Metal type bands. I can't tell you how many drummers we had come in the studio who wanted to sound like John Bonham. Of course they always had a single head bass drum with a big pillow stuffed up against the head, single headed toms with tape on them and so forth. These guys seem to think that there is a dial on the board where you just select the drum sound you want and it magically happens.

I suppose we should have been grateful that the drummer showed up at all, missing drummers has happened a few times to bands I have recorded.

Alan.
 
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