DAW Timing

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
I've noticed that my DAW is writing/recording audio from the interface a touch off real-time. As I play along with the written drums, I stress the timing in particular parts, then I notice, while replaying it and analyzing the waveform, that it's slightly off. If I move the entire track to the right by milliseconds, then it matches up better.

Is this a known thing with DAW's or interfaces? Scarlett 2i2, PreSonus Studio One 2 Pro. Yeah, I've had this DAW for years, but just now noticed that it's actually NOT my timing that's off (not by that much, I mean), but the thing itself is writing it early. Weird.
 
There may (should?) be a setting in your DAW to control that adjustment. There's a real time delay between the digital audio being played back through the DAW to the interface for D/A conversion, and then you playing along to that, going through A/D back to the DAW. Small, and sometimes unnoticeable, but it can be significant if there are different VSTs in play. In Logic Pro, there are both the I/O buffer size and Recording Delay settings that affect latency. The latter can be a positive or negative value.
 
I was reading about a PreSonus bug concerning this.

PreSonus Forums | My apologies if asked: S1 seems to record things too early? | Studio One Forum Community Support

Googling 'reverse latency' produces more results.

Wow, that's crazy. I thought it was either my playing, some unique issue with my setup, or anything other than a known issue. Thanks a lot for that link! Really appreciate it. I'll try the steps in that thread to see if it fixes it. Man, thinking back on all the songs I've recorded over the last 4 years...this is the only DAW I've used. This whole time I've thought my playing was off by a smidgeon...coming in too early throughout the song, so this is good news. It's really only a small amount, milliseconds, but noticeable if you listen closely. Thanks again
 
Don't have S One but yes, there is something similar in Samplitude below.

In Cubase e.g. you can set (or not) "Use system timestamp". Might be moot?

Dave.
 

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I thought DAWs were supposed to take care of that automatically - no matter the latency of your interface/settings. ANother reason to stick with Reaper - I know it works.
 
I would try recording the part with the Direct Monitor on the Focusrite engaged. If the timing is fixed that way, then you know it's a setting or something within the DAW. Are you applying effects to the part you are recording while actually recording? This can cause latency. If these are not fixes, try reducing the buffer size in the DAW.
 
I would try recording the part with the Direct Monitor on the Focusrite engaged. If the timing is fixed that way, then you know it's a setting or something within the DAW. Are you applying effects to the part you are recording while actually recording? This can cause latency. If these are not fixes, try reducing the buffer size in the DAW.

Yes, there are effects, but keep in mind this is EARLY writing, not late. It must be capturing in real time but placing it ahead after the fact.
 
It's the latency caused by the effects you are playing through.

Also, does it sound off, or are you zooming in really hard and noticing that it looks off?

If you can see a problem, but not hear a problem, there is no problem.
 
All DAWs should automatically calculate the Record Offset (Vegas Pro term), but sometimes they don't get it right. That's why they have manual adjustment. It may just be that a given DAW doesn't communicate well with a given interface. Sometimes there's an occasional bug that just requires a restart, but it sounds like a consistent problem with what you're using.

I had this happen when I first switched from digital tape to DAW. When we first tracked bass to a drum loop, the bassist and I heard something wrong with the groove. I spent some time trying to figure it out, finally looping the drum track out the interface and back through an input. It was late by 46 samples at 48kHz sample rate, less than a millisecond. I eventually found the adjustment in the DAW and things were good from then on (mostly).
 
It's the latency caused by the effects you are playing through.

Also, does it sound off, or are you zooming in really hard and noticing that it looks off?

If you can see a problem, but not hear a problem, there is no problem.

Both though. I'd hear an issue, zoom in a bit, and see how early the material started in the waveform.
 
Try a loop back test. Record some guitar with no effects, send it out the interface and back in, with and without your typical effects and record to a new track. I could be actual record offset, or maybe the effects are causing a delay in the monitoring that you're compensating for by playing early.
 
Don't have S One but yes, there is something similar in Samplitude below.

In Cubase e.g. you can set (or not) "Use system timestamp". Might be moot?

Dave.

Mmm...that's for aligning your MIDI sync, it's not the problem he is having.

I've been using Samplitude for a long time...never had this kind of issue where recorded tracks are not in sync with existing tracks.
I can zoom in AFA she goes down to sample level, and it's perfect.

Looks like a Studio One issue apparently...from the earlier post that links to that S1 forum thread.
Device clock VS DAW clock...and all that.

I clock my converter boxes externally, from a clock box...but then in the Samplitude ASIO section, I also tell Samplitude that the clock source is coming from the converters...that way it's all basically getting time from a single clock.

Not sure where those settings are in S1...but there's probably a similar setup process.
 
Try a loop back test. Record some guitar with no effects, send it out the interface and back in, with and without your typical effects and record to a new track. I could be actual record offset, or maybe the effects are causing a delay in the monitoring that you're compensating for by playing early.

This is what I was trying to say as well. Your compensation could cause problems both ways. If you have tried it without effects and with the direct monitor and you still have the problem then please disregard all that I have stated and try what miroslav posted.
 
I also tell Samplitude that the clock source is coming from the converters...that way it's all basically getting time from a single clock.

Not sure where those settings are in S1...but there's probably a similar setup process.

I may be wrong, but it seems like the amount of time (milliseconds, in all honesty) differs between takes. It's not always the same, but it's usually a bit early. Does the issue you brought up mean that the amount of time it's off by would be constant? Or could it fluctuate? I'll try looking for settings re: converter clock source
 
I think you should do some basic test...without any FX/processing...just find out if the sync issue is there and if it is a consistent amount.

Now I don't know if by consistent it's going to be the same down to a single sample...but if there's a random swing in two directions in milliseconds/samples (44.1 samples per millisecond at 44.1k Hz sampling rate) between tracks/takes...then that's something weird.

Yes...I would fist check the converter(s) source clock settings, and then see what the ASIO setting in the DAW is for clock source.

I thought earlier in the tread this was all tied to some kind of known issues with Studio One...and that there was an update/workaround...?
 
I may be wrong, but it seems like the amount of time (milliseconds, in all honesty) differs between takes. It's not always the same, but it's usually a bit early. Does the issue you brought up mean that the amount of time it's off by would be constant? Or could it fluctuate? I'll try looking for settings re: converter clock source

I think this is why Cubase has the "Use System Timestamp" function? If I understand it correctly it makes the DAW lock to the computers clock? That should be consistent.

But I am a numpty about such things!

Dave.
 
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