DAW design flawed?

[ido1957]

I think Sonar X3 has a fundamental design flaw. Well probably lots but this one came up lately....
In the channel strip, you can put a compressor after the input gain, but you cannot put one after automation.
Ok I know automation is fader related which is the last step on the channel. But (without routing to a bus) I would like to be able to insert a compressor after the automation to tame a few peaks that automation isn't precise enough to catch.
Once I've automated the fader, it's pretty much stuck where it is. Sure I can lower or raise the gain but I can't compress.

 

[Btyre2013]

in cubase I put the compressor at the post fader plug in slot...is this what you are going for? then when you alter the automation it won't turn the compressor down with it.

The other way is to send it to a group bus and have the compressor on the group channel with automation on the track itself.

 

[ido1957]

in cubase I put the compressor at the post fader plug in slot...is this what you are going for? then when you alter the automation it won't turn the compressor down with it.

The other way is to send it to a group bus and have the compressor on the group channel with automation on the track itself.

Yeah I don't want to send it to a bus to get compression after the automation. There's no post fader plug in slot afaik in Sonar X3. There's a pre/post fader send after the effects bin. But again even that would have to got to a bus (or another channel I suppose). Sounds like Cubase has the post fader compressor insert option on the channel strip I'm looking for. But I'm not going to switch DAW's at this point.

So - I guess Sonar designers had a reason why not to include this option. Maybe some more experienced mixers can advise why...

 

[mixsit]

I think Sonar X3 has a fundamental design flaw. Well probably lots but this one came up lately....
In the channel strip, you can put a compressor after the input gain, but you cannot put one after automation.
Ok I know automation is fader related which is the last step on the channel. But (without routing to a bus) I would like to be able to insert a compressor after the automation to tame a few peaks that automation isn't precise enough to catch.
Once I've automated the fader, it's pretty much stuck where it is. Sure I can lower or raise the gain but I can't compress.

Not at all. What you want is Clip automation. I almost always start there- along with roughing in the fader positions, doing my main moves- 'editing/clean up trims, trimming levels like you mention, all pre-insert and track compression.
Then in later passes lock in the fader's automation. I'd guess 3/4 of my tracks have both layers.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

Could you send the track to an Aux on "pre" and then put a compressor on that Aux and mute the original track?

 

[ido1957]

Not at all. What you want is Clip automation. I almost always start there- along with roughing in the fader positions, doing my main moves- 'editing/clean up trims, trimming levels like you mention, all pre-insert and track compression.
Then in later passes lock in the fader's automation. I'd guess 3/4 of my tracks have both layers.

Cool - never even knew this existed until now.
If I automated the clips, then the sends (reverb/delay) could match the master send. This would give me consistency in the reverb vs master levels. And take a load off the track compressor which is what I was aiming for. Well, the compressor will affect the master send but it's still closer together.
I only want to compress a db or two and just limit peaks and catch what I can't with automation.
Now I wish I could copy all the track automation from my song to clip automation but that looks impossible...or is it?

 

[mixsit]

Cool - never even knew this existed until now.
If I automated the clips, then the sends (reverb/delay) could match the master send. This would give me consistency in the reverb vs master levels. And take a load off the track compressor which is what I was aiming for. Well, the compressor will affect the master send but it's still closer together.
I only want to compress a db or two and just limit peaks and catch what I can't with automation.
Now I wish I could copy all the track automation from my song to clip automation but that looks impossible...or is it?

Not sure what you mean exactly on that one part..
I tought I recall being able to copy automation.. don't know, but likely all wisdom revealed in PDF

 

[ido1957]

Not sure what you mean exactly on that one part..
I tought I recall being able to copy automation.. don't know, but likely all wisdom revealed in PDF

What it means is once I automate the clip itself, I automate the gain. So everything from that point forward has the same gain.
So SEND/OUTPUT have the same volume. SEND goes to my reverb and OUTPUT goes to the master.
Assuming I don't alter the Fader the amount of signal is the same to each and I don't get drastic amounts going to the reverb versus the master because it's automated to an even level before the reverb send.
Now I probably will automate the fader, but I could automate the gain so that the fader requires little change. I currently don't alter the volume of the vocals much if any throughout the song.
With respect to the copying, I was thinking copy the gain automation from a volume automation (i.e. a different type of envelope) but I don't think it's possible to switch envelope types. This would be for exiting project where I want to try this gain automation thing.

 

[Jonesey9]

What it means is once I automate the clip itself, I automate the gain. So everything from that point forward has the same gain.
So SEND/OUTPUT have the same volume. SEND goes to my reverb and OUTPUT goes to the master.
Assuming I don't alter the Fader the amount of signal is the same to each and I don't get drastic amounts going to the reverb versus the master because it's automated to an even level before the reverb send.
Now I probably will automate the fader, but I could automate the gain so that the fader requires little change. I currently don't alter the volume of the vocals much if any throughout the song.
With respect to the copying, I was thinking copy the gain automation from a volume automation (i.e. a different type of envelope) but I don't think it's possible to switch envelope types. This would be for exiting project where I want to try this gain automation thing.

But in it's default state, your reverb send is POST fader so the feed to the reverb bus AND the master bus will vary in sympathy with any fader movements you make, whether they be manual or automated.