Cool interview with Joe Carrell about mixing "IN THE BOX"

:)

Just stay out of the cave, you won't get much if any of that here. Now, if you talk about foam and its ability for sound treatment, then that is a different issue.
Thanks for the tip!

:thumbs up:

I guess that I had the mentioned problem at the other forum in a similar 'cave' section. I think it is called 'After Hours' there. The biggest problem (and for me it is really serious and that's why I decided to abandon the community) is that one of the trolls was the section moderator himself!

:eek:

Anyway, I will surely stay away from the cave.

;)
 
:)


Thanks for the tip!

:thumbs up:

I guess that I had the mentioned problem at the other forum in a similar 'cave' section. I think it is called 'After Hours' there. The biggest problem (and for me it is really serious and that's why I decided to abandon the community) is that one of the trolls was the section moderator himself!

:eek:

Anyway, I will surely stay away from the cave.

;)


Moderators in Cave = Bad things... :eek:

I don't even take the time to look at the 'Cave' here. No more than I would peek at a crochet site for my granny. Not something that is relevant to myself.

To each there own. :)
 
I'm totally with Witz and DM on this one. For years on this board, I've seen quite a number of people for whom English is not their primary language treated pretty poorly at times or misunderstood which has then led to poor treatment and accusations of trolling etc.
On a daily basis I meet up with many people for whom English is not their primary language and that influences how I communicate. I'm not going to talk to someone from Lithuania in their mid 40s who has only been in England for three years the same way I'd talk to a teenager with rap sensibilities that was born here and has never left the country. There are jokes I won't tell or phrases I won't use.
And so it follows on the board. If we know where someone is based, there's a good chance that some people will tune their approach to that person because where they are based may be where they also come from. Unless X from Estonia lets us know they're actually not from Estonia but just living there, I will assume they're from Estonia and communicate in a simpler, clearer manner.
I've been following the dialogue with MusicWater and while it's true that they came out with some very confusing stuff, I found that if you considered that English wasn't their primary language, they were actually easier to understand.
I've just got back from some time in Holland, a country where virtually everyone speaks English {In 26 years of going there, I've never met a Dutch person that didn't speak English} yet, I still had to tune my communication to their way of understanding. I had a good laugh trying to draw words like "barrier", "underground", "bollard" and "ticket machine" from the receptionist of our apartment because she couldn't explain what she meant because they're not exactly everyday words.
I take the approach that the responsibility is mine to help someone understand what I mean as well as me trying to catch what they mean.


You're so succinct and articulate, and always nice and kind in all your posts. Thank you!!
 
I haven't had a chance to digest the info in the vid. Any perspective is useful.
Regarding English as a Second language - it's REALLY handy to know that a poster is in that situation. Less jargon, slang and subjective language is a benefit for those folk and a benefit for all in the long run.
 
For all of ya's that are doing it all in a box...here's a nice interview on how Joe does his thing...

Thanks for posting that, good stuff, well done video too.

Took some notes-
1)Template creation and workflow setup importance/tips
2) Ride the Mix, get artistic with the volumes and compressors,
3) tip : Low Volume mixing..... uses HiEnd Full speakers and crap-set like NS10 to check.
Low Volume helps reduce the crappy-room effect.
4) Interesting moJoeMix recommends spending money on the room instead of redundant gear/fx addiction. This seems to be a common tip. The interviewer made the comment "thats not as much fun..." ....... so true. Who wants to spend money on fiberglass panels? Even though its so huge to the end result, I know I'm thwarted that way, doing the room always is ignored or in denial.
 

Attachments

  • sound room.png
    sound room.png
    292.3 KB · Views: 50
I always tame my Australian english when travelling the world so that people can understand easier, and thats also when I am in England LOL.

Alan.
 
I always tame my Australian english when travelling the world so that people can understand easier, and thats also when I am in England LOL.

Alan.

Heh. How would the Brits know to point and speak loudly in perfect English if people don't put their location in their profile. :p
 
Nice summary coolcat.
You took much the same as I did from the 30 mins.
The most useful thing was low vol mixing/monitoring as I had my brain around less effects better used, fader riding & room treatment.
The most problematic for me is using compression for colouration.
I'll have to work on my listening skills as I still don't REALLY hear this difference with my current plug set (I mainly use ReaComp & Blockfish - I don't know about colouration but Blockfish def has its own imprint on audio).
I thought the interviewer's use of hyperbole was annoying and lazy.
The responses were more articulate than the queries.
My Australian accent isn't very 'Strine I'm afraid.
I've oft been accused of being either posh or pommie.
I'm neither: just a westie who talks for a living (don't wear much flannelette these days).
Am I read with an accent?
 
OK, this thread is great, thanks OP for this post!

First of all, the interview as a whole made a lot of sense. My approach to mixing is very similar to Joe's, the process needs to be great and it needs to not be in the way of the art. I totally agree that the mixer should be focusing on improving the musical abilities rather than the technical, although I see no reason why they cannot build on each other.

What I noticed a little was the decision of doing tape saturation and console track emulation in the same way on pretty much all the channels. I do think that this has more things to it. First of all, I'm not sure he really only uses a single tape saturation plugin (both in terms of brand/model and nr of instances per track) and a single console track emulation plugin, at least he probably varies the settings. I think that the reason why he did not want to reveil this in detail was because of the considerable amount of time he has spent on choosing which tape saturation and console track emulation plugins should be used on what sound source and how, could be some NDA components to it as well. But it was interesting that he reveiled this approach. Therefore, in my view the takeaway point about this approach, should be that tape saturation and console track emulation when combined and when intelligently dialed in, can bring very interesting characteristics to the sound of your mix.

I call this fighting the "smear effect". The "smear effect" is this: By default everything in a digital DAW is constant. You have a fixed set of plugins to use, a fixed set of controls, a fixed set of default settings, precisely the same fixed behavior from each plugin and so on, very little elasticity in terms of character and element separation in the stereo field. This also kind of leads you into applying the same principles, plugins and settings to everything, in other words rather than building up unique character on each channel of each sound source, it's common to go in the opposite direction. For anyone who is taking note on this approach I do want to share the fact that it can be better not to lock yourself into the idea of going this approach entirely, but rather try to differentiate each sound source as much as possible. For instance on some tracks it could be better to put the console track emulation before the tape saturation. And on some tracks it might work better to use either the tape saturation or the console track emulation plugin and not both.

Another thing to pay attention to about this is the scope of application. If you are an experienced engineer you can immediately tell that putting some particular character on both channels adds more mix character as oppose to adding the character only on one of the channels and that a sound you want to color the mix a lot you should center pan. In the case of Joe's recommendations it makes sense to go the route he recommends, one of the reasons for that is that adding character ITB tends to happen in smaller doses per effect instance, so overall the more plugins ITB the better (as long as you effectively deal with the delay it causes and have control over it), don't be afraid you will end up with too much character ITB very soon. Having said that, please also note that Joe has a strong country music element to his sound, where he wants a lot of emotion in the sound. It's all good. But, this can also lead you into thinking that this ALWAYS works. The truth of the matter is that it works if it suites the particular music well. Now, because adding harmonics to the audio tends to provide resonance/emotion, in this case you still kind of have to consider it a good thing in most genres as a default choice. I would however, add to this that it can make more sense to scope this on a channel (L/R) basis and apply these effects not in serial but in parallel and incorporate this character into your balancing work and also consider the even tighter scope of application which is on the freq band level. I also want to point out that it is important to figure out what effects work well in serial, what effects don't work well in serial, what effects should kick in through a side chain and so on.

Other than that, I do find you should also pay attention to Joe's use of outboard gear. It's simple to describe the elegance of ITB mix templates and signal routing, it's much more difficult to describe what can be done ITB and what cannot be done ITB. Especially important to note is his use of the Urei 1176 compressor on the bass guitar, I found this to be possibly the most valuable point in the interview, simply because there is a lot of value in taking part of gear advice that comes this naturally from a cat of this caliber. So if I would recommend anyone to try out Joe's approach to mixing and gear, it would be the 1176 on the bass guitar. As you all know, the bass guitar sound in country music is sweet! :thumbs up: His emphasis on automation was also great. Please note that when he talks about bringing front various elements in the mix through automation, what he really means is that it is the process of adding vitality to your mix. :listeningmusic:
 
Last edited:
Nice summary coolcat.
You took much the same as I did from the 30 mins.
The most useful thing was low vol mixing/monitoring as I had my brain around less effects better used, fader riding & room treatment.

Low volume mixing is in my view a little overrated. Low volume mixing - in itself - is good for mix vitality, because when mixing at loud monitoring volume, ear fatigue can start to impact the mixing process and morph into lower mix vitality through gain reduction. But low volume mixing can cause harsh sounding mixes due to its impact on the gain staging - you simply gain the wrong frequencies by too much, so as soon as you turn up the volume, the mix grows into a harsh monster. In terms of getting great effect wetness, low volume mixing can cause issues for you because you tend to overdo effects when you cannot perceive the effect impact as easily. The combination can kill your mixes. Therefore, try to find an overall sweet spot (somewhere at around 4 of 9), then during the mixing process check various balances at various monitoring volumes. For instance, dial in effects like reverb on loud volume. This is also a way of making your mix sounding different at different volumes, which is a very interesting and important thing. Effects like reverb that are difficult to hear at low doses on low playback volume can start to kick into the listener's awareness when he increases the playback volume and THAT is what you REALLY should be looking closely at - how to make your mixes sounding increasingly more interesting when raising the playback volume.
 
Last edited:
Automation is a very new thing for me but then again I am very much a novice at this with not a whole lot of studio hours under my belt.

I really liked how Musicwater described it as bringing "Vitality" to the mix...I can accentuate a part from a whisper to a scream it's SO COOL... monster plus to "in the box" econo recording
 
Thanks for posting that, good stuff, well done video too.

Took some notes-
1)Template creation and workflow setup importance/tips
2) Ride the Mix, get artistic with the volumes and compressors,
3) tip : Low Volume mixing..... uses HiEnd Full speakers and crap-set like NS10 to check.
Low Volume helps reduce the crappy-room effect.
4) Interesting moJoeMix recommends spending money on the room instead of redundant gear/fx addiction. This seems to be a common tip. The interviewer made the comment "thats not as much fun..." ....... so true. Who wants to spend money on fiberglass panels? Even though its so huge to the end result, I know I'm thwarted that way, doing the room always is ignored or in denial.

So... you took notes too, huh?

* templates

* levels (volume automation)

* low-volume mixing

* treat your rooms, ijits

I really enjoyed that video. Such a breath of fresh air compared to listening to people making it up on sites like this one. ("Hey, I got a good idea - I'll interview my own left thumb and call myself watership down and write long posts that say nothing on hr.com. Yeah. Glad I thought of it.")
 
Yeah, and besides having to spend money on fiberglass panels instead of cool equipment with pretty, flashing LEDs, it takes a lot of time, patience and work to get them all hung in the right places! What a bummer.

Can't believe how much better my room sounds with all this stuff up, though.

Now I'm back to working with my 5's for the initial mix instead of the 8's I thought I'd need cause the 8's are so loud. I get my initial mix together about 65dB, then hit the 8's for a 90dB walk through. Still working out how all my new gear (and plugins) affect my music. Redoing the old familiar stuff to get a good feel. Got Steven Slate Drums figured out enough to use, working heavily with the Selig Leveler (nice kit), and getting all the new connections (new piano, new drum triggers, new interface) working right. This is a lot of fun...hanging panels was a great mental exercise on paper, but a whole lot of sweaty afternoons to get it done!

Templates are actually easy in Reason, when you get what you want, throw it in a Combinator patch and save. Godsend! Now anytime you want that sound back, just load the Combinator and put it on that track/bus/send/output. Tweak to taste. DONE!
 
Yeah, and besides having to spend money on fiberglass panels instead of cool equipment with pretty, flashing LEDs, it takes a lot of time, patience and work to get them all hung in the right places! What a bummer.

Can't believe how much better my room sounds with all this stuff up, though.

I got all the fibreglass up and smiled a smug bastard sort of smile for a while. But it actually deadened the room too much. So now when I'm miking something acoustic, I'm using sheets of wood or glass to get some reflections back into the sound. And I found out that even then, recording ukelele for instance sounds better in the room next to the studio. So I drilled a hole in the wall between the rooms and track uke in there now lol.
 
The only treatment I've adding to my room will be some bass traps. The room has full book shelves, speaker cabs, CD racks etc 2/3rd up 3 walls and the 4th is glass from about 3 ft up to the ceiling so have heavy curtains across when needed. The glass does add some liveliness to the room. All the books, CDs and small mobile things are set at diff depths so that they don't present a flat or even surface, (the Cd's - about 1000 of them, work reasonably well as quasi diffusers for my purposes). There aren't any flat surfaces at the 1st reflection points and the book shelves face the monitors. I'm attempting to find an alternative to rigid fibreglass as both my wife an I react poorly to the fibres and if I'm going to DIY traps I need something less yucky.
The vid was refreshingly non sales based.
 
Back
Top