Compression Question

Nola said:
I'm doing a 30 day demo of Fab Filter pro-L and really like it. I just don't really want to shell out $200 for a plugin so I don't know what I'll do when it's up. Going to mix as much as I can with the trial!
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Yeah, is there not a stock limiter in your DAW? Unless it's a super package with a bunch of things in it, I wouldn't dish out $200 for a single limiter plugin.

With a few minutes spent going across the entire mix, you can probably manipulate a few extra db's of gain, if that's what you think a fancier limiter is going to do. I'd rather spend the $200 on nicer mics, room treatment, instruments, etc... in the home studio sector, we can hardly take advantage of what a "nicer" limiter can do anyways. I suppose if you're putting it on something like vocals or a bass, something all over the place dynamically, it would be more useful. But for a few db gain reduction, just about any limiter can do that fine enough - turn on true peak, and play with the release.
 
Yeah, that's what I thought, but on page 2 and 3 Jimmy and BoulderSoundGuy both say a good 3rd party plugin will sound better. That's the issue...spending $200 on one plugin when that money can go to guitars, amps, etc. More important hardware. That's the issue I'm having, too, so I agree. I'll look around. Sometimes new up and coming developers offer their stuff free for a while just to get their name and reputation out there, so there might be something like that. What I liked about the Fab Filter limiter is it shows the audio scrolling and visually shows how much reduction at each peak. That is an awesome feature.
 
Hmm, if the plugin reliably and transparently deals with volume spikes it might be worth $200. I find myself thinking, "Crap, wish I didn't have to track down these spikes..." a lot more often than I think, "Man, wish I had another guitar..." Question is, does this limiter do the job better than the stock plugins, freeware, or cheaper alternatives?
 
Robus said:
Hmm, if the plugin reliably and transparently deals with volume spikes it might be worth $200. I find myself thinking, "Crap, wish I didn't have to track down these spikes..." a lot more often than I think, "Man, wish I had another guitar..." Question is, does this limiter do the job better than the stock plugins, freeware, or cheaper alternatives?
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I'll be researching that exact question and let you know what I find.

They all limit peaks, it's just how much you can limit them before they sound bad. In the case of the Fab Filter, I got to about -5db or -6db of reduction before I began to notice it degrading. On the stock plugin it's harder to tell because it's just a quick flickering meter. I can't tell exactly how much it's reducing.

To my ear the Fab Filter did sound transparent. Like you, I'm very sensitive to compression and dislike it. I'd do this all manually if time weren't an issue. Waves makes those "rider" plugins that pull down the audio quickly. I have the vocal one. I don't know if it works on guitar, but I'll try it just to see if it can quickly and manually automate those peaks. That might be better than compression/limiting. That plugin was only $26. Waves limiter is usually on sale for $29, too, but it doesn't have the scrolling audio interface that the Fab Filter has. That is super helpful for seeing what is going on and the exact DB reduction on each peak. I love that feature.
 
Before you spend money it might be worth experimenting more with a stock compressor/limiter. Try very fast attack and release, perhaps just short of the fastest setting it has. If you haven't yet, download the Cocko's (Reaper) free plugin package and try their compressor set up as a limiter.

I think you can get the FG-X for about $100. See if there's a free trial of that and try it out.
 
If it's clipping the master bus it's clipping the converters. I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't want to work like that.
 
Absolutely not. Best policy is zero tolerance for clipping ANYWHERE in the project. Every track, every bus, every plugin must be in the green from start to finish, period. Any clipping gets fixed at the source immediately upon discovery, before moving on. Why settle for less?
 
I will occasionally push a drum buss. Percussion in heavier music seems to not be such an issue. But yes, a clip is never a good thing as a basic rule. Never ever on a master buss.
 
alterman said:
I don't agree. The master can't clip indeed (so limiter?) but the tracks can digitally clipping if they not distort unwanted.
A good daw working on 32 bit floating can handle it. There are producers using it to pump up the sound.

And i'm not the only one who doesn't agree.
youtube.com/watch?v=jmDLBphPu1I
youtube.com/watch?v=mfPgQg-3rJE
And many more to be found.
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I'm well aware of a blaze attitude toward digital clipping on the part of some pros. I've heard similar remarks. Hardly surprising given the pervasive ugliness of the sonic texture of so much music out there. As with the volume wars of the first decade of this century, producers figured out that most listeners don't know and don't care. They are listening on earbuds anyway. So be it. My projects will not clip.
 
I clipped a song once and kept it because it was the best vocal take I ever did, and I couldn't repeat it. That's about the only reason to clip. Agree with Robus modern mixes sound like garbage, so I guess clipping is where you go when you've already destroyed the dynamics. There's really nothing left to do but clip at that point.
 
So, it turns out I quality for an educational license for the FabFilter stuff. I can get Pro-L for $99.50. That's still a lot for one plugin. Their lowest priced bundle contains 7 plugins and would cost $349. So that's cheaper per plugin, but I doubt I'd ever use 3 of the plugins (de-esser, multiband compressor, and gate/expander). So I'd be getting 4 (Limiter, Reverb, Compressor, and Equalizer). I have other plugins that do all those things, but I love the graphic interface on the FabFilter stuff. Seeing what you're doing helps to learn, so it might have value for that reason. Tough decision. I hate spending so much on plugins. That's half a good guitar or amp right there.
 
The Pro-Q is as worthy as the limiter. I would suggest you play with that demo before you make the decision.

I have not experimented with the other plugs as I have had no use for them.

That is cool you can get the educational versions man. Props for finding that!
 
alterman said:
I never gave an opinion. I only said it is possible as long as within a good DAW, that some practice it, and benefit from it. And for some styles off music it does have benefits.
Most i record i also keep as original in sound as possible and don't like to distort with clipping. I'm mostly old school on that too. Were we must not forget that a lot off electronic guitar by-sounds come from amp clipping.
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I looked at the videos you linked. Thanks, they were informative. But in neither case was it clear that they were clipping at all. The argument they seemed to be making was that a red warning indication does not mean that there is actually clipping--yet. The plugin the guy in the first video was a kind of tube distortion emulator or some sort. I was not inducing any clipping that I noticed.

If the warning lights in my DAW are are calibrated to trigger while there is still a bit of headroom left, that is interesting to know.
 
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