C4 Multiband Compressor - Range vs Ratio?

I just purchased the C4 Multiband Copmpressor and noticed right away that there were not Ratio settings. Instead they have a "Range" setting.

I looked up what that means. They say Range sets the maximum gain change for a band. And that range sets both the ratio and the maximum gain change. You may have noticed there is no Ratio control! Instead, the RANGE control serves as both a type of ratio control and a way to also control the maximum gain reduction in each band. To achieve higher ratios, simply increase the RANGE value, and possibly lower the THRESHOLD, if required. Increasing the KNEE to higher values also increases the ratio at the knee."

Uggh! I have so many years dealing with ratios that this has really thrown me for a loop. Yes, I know, I'm supposed to use my ears anyway. But it would really help if there were some sort of rough "range-to-ratio" guide around.

Does anyone have any guidance on this? I'd love to know, for example, if there is any way to say (at least approximately) that, say, a Range setting of -8 is about the same as a 3:1 ratio, or a -6 is close to 2:1.

Advice? Thanks!
 
I am going to be honest with you. I bought the C6 a few years ago and pretty much never use it. That said I use the Renaissance Compressor and EQ's all day long. My ears aren't good enough to hear the good in the C6.
 
C6 is really designed to go on final Mix bus, not so much for surgery as for gentle final tweaks. The ratio is not really scaler, its more like an eq that broadens the farther from the "base" line (not exactly, but I find it helpful to think that way). If you think of it more like a tone control it tends to make more sense. Usually you're going into a limiter afterwards so it's kind of a way to get your final balance before then. Not really for fixing, just controlling/smoothing.
 
Did you read the on line manual? Link

This compressor does not have a ratio control in the common way as it really acts as a hard or soft limiter, the harder you push against the compressor the ratio effectively increases, some of the factory settings make this behave differently so read the manual. Very easy to use. Some good uses mentioned here down the page.

I used to use one in my mastering chain years ago, but now use the L3-16 Multimaximizer, I should say that you need to be careful with multi band compressors as they do effect the mix if hit too hard, however if you do need to effect the mix they can work well.

By the way the C4 factory settings are a good start with setting it up.

Alan.
 
Hi Ryan. The first thing to realize here is that the C6 has many functions that act like an EQ. For example, say you are working with the low mid band and it is pointed at 200-700 hz. If your threshold fader is all the way to the top, and you drop the 'gain' on that band, you're simply cutting at 450hz, and not compressing that band.

I just purchased the C4 Multiband Copmpressor and noticed right away that there were not Ratio settings. Instead they have a "Range" setting.
That's because on this compressor, the ratio is a graduated function of the range similar to the way an LA-2A works but in a multi-band capacity. So you have a ratio per se, but you can't control it (nor do you want to). That's the part of the purpose of this plugin.

I looked up what that means. They say Range sets the maximum gain change for a band. And that range sets both the ratio and the maximum gain change. You may have noticed there is no Ratio control! Instead, the RANGE control serves as both a type of ratio control and a way to also control the maximum gain reduction in each band. To achieve higher ratios, simply increase the RANGE value, and possibly lower the THRESHOLD, if required. Increasing the KNEE to higher values also increases the ratio at the knee."

When I'm training a new intern, this is one of the first compressors I need them to understand how to use. So to get acquainted with this, here's what I'd do:

-Start by bypassing all but the second band. I pull up a vocal and focus only on the low-mids to demonstrate how it functions.
-The next step is to adjust the crossover frequencies (for the second band) to isolate the bommyness and muddiness in a vocal.
-Then I nudge the threshold downward until you start to see activity on the display.
-THEN I demonstrate how the range feature allows to the threshold to pull weaker or stronger on that specific target area of the source.
-Next I toggle the attack and release (which are really key here) to demonstrate how adjusting these minimizes artifacts in the compressed range.

....then I solo the upper middle band, and turn the process inside-out t demonstrate it as an expander instead of a compressor.

Uggh! I have so many years dealing with ratios that this has really thrown me for a loop.
Again, if you imagine this as an LA-2A or LA-3A, that'll help make sense. Just know that the ratio moves around and that it engages as soon as you begin to drop your threshold.

Yes, I know, I'm supposed to use my ears anyway. But it would really help if there were some sort of rough "range-to-ratio" guide around.
Even if you did, it wouldn't matter much. Because as soon as you introduce different ratios for different bands, the sonic result is so dissimilar to a full range compressor that I don't think it would matter. This is arguably why Waves chose to not even include this in the controls. If I ever need a very specific ratio control, I swap for the Izotope MBC instead.

Does anyone have any guidance on this? I'd love to know, for example, if there is any way to say (at least approximately) that, say, a Range setting of -8 is about the same as a 3:1 ratio, or a -6 is close to 2:1.
No no no. Its not fixed anyway. I see what you're thinking here, but -8 (for example) does not anchor at a 3:1 or a 4:1. That's not how this works. This is like a Fairchild, an EMI, or a Vari Mu style compressor where the ratio at a certain threshold still fluctuates based on program material. Its called a program dependent ratio. So being at -8 could make it a 4:1, but -8 could become a 6:1 on the chorus when it gets heavier. There's no set number on this compressor. This makes the C4 very different from the Izotope MBC.
 
C6 is really designed to go on final Mix bus, not so much for surgery as for gentle final tweaks. The ratio is not really scaler, its more like an eq that broadens the farther from the "base" line (not exactly, but I find it helpful to think that way). If you think of it more like a tone control it tends to make more sense. Usually you're going into a limiter afterwards so it's kind of a way to get your final balance before then. Not really for fixing, just controlling/smoothing.

I don't know where this is coming from, but its largely incorrect. Both the C4 and the C6 are heavily used in film, broadcast, game audio, just about everywhere in the signal chain. It can go at the top of a vocal chain, or the back of a vocal chain, or on a BGV group bus....it can be used to control rattle from a snare strainer, or take out ringing from the shell. You can use this to tame sibilance...the 3rd and 4th band can be used as a de-esser, and if you do so, you have more control than a stock de-esser.

The C4 and C6 can be HIGHLY surgical and can pinpoint and control frequencies without damaging phase or introducing linear artifacts like an EQ. Its the perfect tool for addressing certain rogue frequencies in certain spots at certain times. The ability to make it only react to the source in certain places is where it excels over regular EQ. And this is true of the C6 even more than the C4 because of the extended control over your 1st and 6th bands on the C6.

The ratio IS a scaler...and the EQ is NOT proportional (meaning the Q broadens from the baseline)... The API Eq is proportional. The Kush Electra is proportional. The EQ bands on the wings of the C6 are not even remotely similar.
 
I don't know where this is coming from, but its largely incorrect. Both the C4 and the C6 are heavily used in film, broadcast, game audio, just about everywhere in the signal chain. It can go at the top of a vocal chain, or the back of a vocal chain, or on a BGV group bus....it can be used to control rattle from a snare strainer, or take out ringing from the shell. You can use this to tame sibilance...the 3rd and 4th band can be used as a de-esser, and if you do so, you have more control than a stock de-esser.

The C4 and C6 can be HIGHLY surgical and can pinpoint and control frequencies without damaging phase or introducing linear artifacts like an EQ. Its the perfect tool for addressing certain rogue frequencies in certain spots at certain times. The ability to make it only react to the source in certain places is where it excels over regular EQ. And this is true of the C6 even more than the C4 because of the extended control over your 1st and 6th bands on the C6.

The ratio IS a scaler...and the EQ is NOT proportional (meaning the Q broadens from the baseline)... The API Eq is proportional. The Kush Electra is proportional. The EQ bands on the wings of the C6 are not even remotely similar.
The answer is simple: I am an idiot who mixed up the C6 with a completely different plugin. Forgive my disinformation please.
 
The answer is simple: I am an idiot who mixed up the C6 with a completely different plugin. Forgive my disinformation please.

Ah! You may have been thinking about the L3 series - which LOOK like the C4 at a glance. Those are DEFINITELY 2-bus limiters, and best suited for non-surgical broad strokes. Those don't belong anywhere but a 2 bus :)
 
Ah! You may have been thinking about the L3 series - which LOOK like the C4 at a glance. Those are DEFINITELY 2-bus limiters, and best suited for non-surgical broad strokes. Those don't belong anywhere but a 2 bus :)

L3 Multi or L3 ultra? Believe it or not I have used the L3 Ultramaximizer on vocal tracks when there is a problem vocal with a singer that attacks some words and dissapears with others, actually works well unless its abused. I have also used the L3 Ultra before a opto compressor plugin to tackle the peaks and then letting the opto smooth things out nicely.

Alan.
 
L3 Multi or L3 ultra? Believe it or not I have used the L3 Ultramaximizer on vocal tracks when there is a problem vocal with a singer that attacks some words and dissapears with others, actually works well unless its abused. I have also used the L3 Ultra before a opto compressor plugin to tackle the peaks and then letting the opto smooth things out nicely.

Alan.

Yeah man! There's definitely no incorrect way to use it. If it works it works...thought I don't know if the L3 would end up as my go-to for vocal MBC lol. Some others I use are Opto -> R vox, hitting the opto at 12-20db gr. This a trick I learned from Fab Dupont to anchor the vocal in place before brining out detail. I also do the 1176->LA2A thing. Its pretty common. I do use dual stage compression on vocals too. Units like the Neve 33699 and the Shadow Hills that have two compressors packed into the same box. One stage compresses light, the next stage digs more. Incrementally increasing ratios, increasing attacks times, increasing release times. When I'm working on music related stuff, I'm almost always using UAD plugs.
 
L3 Multi or L3 ultra? Believe it or not I have used the L3 Ultramaximizer on vocal tracks when there is a problem vocal with a singer that attacks some words and dissapears with others, actually works well unless its abused. I have also used the L3 Ultra before a opto compressor plugin to tackle the peaks and then letting the opto smooth things out nicely.

Alan.

I also frequently use the L3 on vocal and drum tracks. Then again later when mastering (with obviously a different strategy in application). It's a very flexible compressor, and great at pushing things. I tried other mastering and hard limiting compressors but they didn't seem to do any better/worse, so I stuck with one compressor for sake of knowing a single product.
 
I do use dual stage compression on vocals too. Units like the Neve 33699 and the Shadow Hills that have two compressors packed into the same box. One stage compresses light, the next stage digs more. Incrementally increasing ratios, increasing attacks times, increasing release times. When I'm working on music related stuff, I'm almost always using UAD plugs.

The C6 acts as my soft/light compressor, usually one of the first things in the chain. Then I use the L3 to bring out detail and/or presence. Sounds Like the same process, but with different and multiple tools.
 
Yeah man! There's definitely no incorrect way to use it. If it works it works...thought I don't know if the L3 would end up as my go-to for vocal MBC lol. Some others I use are Opto -> R vox, hitting the opto at 12-20db gr. This a trick I learned from Fab Dupont to anchor the vocal in place before brining out detail. I also do the 1176->LA2A thing. Its pretty common. I do use dual stage compression on vocals too. Units like the Neve 33699 and the Shadow Hills that have two compressors packed into the same box. One stage compresses light, the next stage digs more. Incrementally increasing ratios, increasing attacks times, increasing release times. When I'm working on music related stuff, I'm almost always using UAD plugs.

Lately I'm finding a use for the C4/C6 in noisy guitar tracks. I'll put the UAD Cambridge EQ on first and then massage the nastiness out of the track with the multiband...string 'sling'... amp background noises....picking chunks...etc... and then use two bands to create an upward expander....maybe more of a 'compander' if you will. Then print this cleaned up track with these effects in place and never worry about it again. Sure does make things sit better when you reach for that 'special' guitar track. This IS rocket surgery after all.
 
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