Best way to automate volume?

Nola

Nola

Well-known member
hi.
what is the best way to automate volume, but not on the track's fader so you're free to move the fader up and down if the volume isn't right after automating? i keep automating the track fader but then in the context of the mix it might be off so i have to go in and re-automate a lot of it. it's so time consuming. there must be some trick b/c no way real engineers spend this much time just on volume.

i guess what i mean, if that isn't clear, is that i want an automated volume for the track itself to tame spikes and all that, but if it turns out that it's too loud in the final mix i'd like to just be able to move the fader down on that track on the main mixer.
 
Put a volume envelope over the track. Then you can draw your volume end to end.
 
I tend to even things out using the gain function. In PT that's "clip gain" and it can be automated much like volume. In Sony Vegas you can split clips, set the gains of each section and crossfade each transition. Most likely one of those two approaches will work in your DAW.
 
It depends on what I'm doing. If I want something like a crescendo, I'll just put a volume envelope on the track. When it comes to evening out differences in level--say a word or two dropping out of a vocal--I'll tend to split the track into clips and apply gain correction to the clips.
 
What DAW are you using? :)
A volume envelope is the correct answer, assuming you are using a full-featured DAW!
 
I'm with Boulder- Sonar calls them 'clip gain as well. To put it in general order;
Faders rough in the balances -no automation there yet- keeps them free for now.
Add the gain envelopes as needed first on the obvious hot or cold spots -to even the balance and flow within the track.

Mix gets dialed in better along the way, then at some point begin to add the fader envelopes. Some of the refinements can still be be done in clip or fader automation, which ever is handier.
Or which is chosen is if it might effect or benefit compression that's been inserted- leveling into the compressor, or after it.
 
Robus said:
It depends on what I'm doing. If I want something like a crescendo, I'll just put a volume envelope on the track. When it comes to evening out differences in level--say a word or two dropping out of a vocal--I'll tend to split the track into clips and apply gain correction to the clips.
Click to expand...

See that a lot actually. Once up to speed with the envelopes and adding the nodes around the spots, rather than chopping them up, I like that with gain lines their placement, distances and spans, in addition to the leveling give you points for fades in, around and out of the spots you're controlling.
Example- Do a dip prior to a hot attack- the slope crosses through the 'transient, on it's way to say the spot or clips 'new general level', might be dialed in in a way that sounds better than letting it hit a compressor.
 
I didn't read all the posts thoroughly, so I apologize if I'm being redundant or unnecessary....
I route the original track to a bus. Then I automate the bus. This way I can adjust the level of the original track easily.
Hope this helps.
-j
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
I didn't read all the posts thoroughly, so I apologize if I'm being redundant or unnecessary....
I route the original track to a bus. Then I automate the bus. This way I can adjust the level of the original track easily.
Hope this helps.
-j
Click to expand...

Sending one track to a buss just to automate a parameter is wasted effort. Why not automate the envelope (volume or gain) on the original track?
 
In my limited experience (maybe Cakewalk specific), once I set up an envelope, I can no longer control the track volume manually. My fader will no longer control the volume, the automation will control the fader. If, after I automate, I decide I want the entire track a db or 2 louder, the only way to boost is to select every automation node and drag them up.
By routing the track output to a bus (which is like 3 clicks, not too much effort), I can set up my automation on the bus without losing control of the original track. I do all of my mixing on the original track.
MJB, are you able to control your fader after you set up a volume envelope? I know I can "override" the automation, but that just disables the automation temporarily, any changes to the mix will revert once automation is enabled.
 
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In Reaper there are a couple different automation modes. Default is called Trim/Read and in that case the envelope and the fader are decoupled - the fader comes after the envelope, and doesn't move with it. Course, we also have the track pre-FX volume envelope and the individual take volume envelopes, so we have plenty of ways to do this. I thought Sonar had something similar, but I could likely be wrong.
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
In my limited experience (maybe Cakewalk specific), once I set up an envelope, I can no longer control the track volume manually. My fader will no longer control the volume, the automation will control the fader. If, after I automate, I decide I want the entire track a db or 2 louder, the only way to boost is to select every automation node and drag them up.
By routing the track output to a bus (which is like 3 clicks, not too much effort), I can set up my automation on the bus without losing control of the original track. I do all of my mixing on the original track.
MJB, are you able to control your fader after you set up a volume envelope? I know I can "override" the automation, but that just disables the automation temporarily, any changes to the mix will revert once automation is enabled.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone.

That's what I've been doing, too, Beagleface. I just select all the nodes and move them up. It's so imprecise and awkward, though.
Oh well.
 
If I recall correctly, in Pro Tools when you grab the far right section of the envelope everything to the left follows. Or something like that. I know there's a way to do in PT that might apply to other DAWs. In Sony Vegas the fader and the volume automation are separate unless you select a fader-write mode.
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
.. If, after I automate, I decide I want the entire track a db or 2 louder, the only way to boost is to select every automation node and drag them up.
By routing the track output to a bus [snip] I can set up my automation on the bus without losing control of the original track. I do all of my mixing on the original track.
MJB, are you able to control your fader after you set up a volume envelope? I know I can "override" the automation, but that just disables the automation temporarily, any changes to the mix will revert once automation is enabled.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you're saying here you might end up with automating both the track and the bus..?
But no reason not to use both. If the track's loaded with a lot of moves for example it could be easier to have a second clean start layer on the bus.
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
In my limited experience (maybe Cakewalk specific), once I set up an envelope, I can no longer control the track volume manually. My fader will no longer control the volume, the automation will control the fader. If, after I automate, I decide I want the entire track a db or 2 louder, the only way to boost is to select every automation node and drag them up.
By routing the track output to a bus (which is like 3 clicks, not too much effort), I can set up my automation on the bus without losing control of the original track. I do all of my mixing on the original track.
MJB, are you able to control your fader after you set up a volume envelope? I know I can "override" the automation, but that just disables the automation temporarily, any changes to the mix will revert once automation is enabled.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the envelope controls absolute level (as in your case), and you are faced with the difficulties you've described. Sometimes the envelope controls relative levels, which means you can create an envelope,then still control overall level with the fader.

With luck, the DAW will allow you to choose what you want.

In Reaper, the default is relative level (which I prefer). In my distant past experience with Logic, the default was absolute.
 
Depends on what you're doing yeah, and in what DAW... but I know what you mean. It can suck.

In Pro Tools, you could write the automation to the volume TRIM, so that the standard volume envelope is untouched and the automation won't effect your faders.

Another way is to use a plugin such as Waves Vocal Rider or Bass Rider... super cool plugs. Huge time savers if you need to do this a lot.
Vid: https://youtu.be/RMiDEzKv09o
 
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BeagleFaceHenry said:
MJB, are you able to control your fader after you set up a volume envelope? I know I can "override" the automation, but that just disables the automation temporarily, any changes to the mix will revert once automation is enabled.
Click to expand...

Yes, as Ashcat explained, in Reaper you can select your envelope-fader relationship. Geez, reading all the issues people have with Cakewalk and PT with something as simple as track volume automation, can't figure out why more people don't prefer Reaper!

The OP never did come back to tell us what DAW he's using.
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
In my limited experience (maybe Cakewalk specific), once I set up an envelope, I can no longer control the track volume manually. My fader will no longer control the volume, the automation will control the fader. If, after I automate, I decide I want the entire track a db or 2 louder, the only way to boost is to select every automation node and drag them up.
By routing the track output to a bus (which is like 3 clicks, not too much effort), I can set up my automation on the bus without losing control of the original track. I do all of my mixing on the original track.
MJB, are you able to control your fader after you set up a volume envelope? I know I can "override" the automation, but that just disables the automation temporarily, any changes to the mix will revert once automation is enabled.
Click to expand...

There are 3 distinct ways to record automation data on an existing envelope in sonar, Touch, Latch and Overwrite. Selecting the correct one (Touch in your case where you want to "correct" an existing envelope) will make your job much easier.

You also can select the entire envelope and drag it up/down by as many dB's as you want - absolutely no need to select each individual node!

---------- Update ----------

mjbphotos said:
Yes, as Ashcat explained, in Reaper you can select your envelope-fader relationship. Geez, reading all the issues people have with Cakewalk and PT with something as simple as track volume automation, can't figure out why more people don't prefer Reaper!

The OP never did come back to tell us what DAW he's using.
Click to expand...

This is because a lot of people refuse to RTFM and have no idea of the power available to them. Certainly this is tru where Sonar is concerned.
 
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