Bass cabs vs DI

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Been seeing some videos on bypassing the bass cabinet and going full DI, with other effects of course. Since i'm using Amplitube, and therefore a virtual cabinet, I'm curious if this is considered the same route. I mean, the mic placement and tone concepts for recording real guitars is emulated in the virtual amp/cab world, for some vendors, so I'm thinking it should be the same for bass.

I'm going to give it a try shortly and see how it sounds, but I've been of the mindset that bass rock tones include the cabinet and mic'ing of it...not 100% DI. And further, my bass into the F-Rite Scarlett 2i2 doesn't sound so hot - though I've never tried it with just the SVT virtual amp, EQ, and compressor. I just know the bass alone sounds like crap DI.

We'll see in a bit how it sounds when I goof around with it. Any thoughts on going full DI? Do you? Does anyone use virtual bass cabs, or do you consider them unnecessary?

For the record, the only bass cab I've used (virtual) has been the SVT standard 8x10 with two mics about 2 ft out, a dynamic 20 and a condenser 414, which are both virtual as well, obviously. Ampeg SVT Pro head.

YouTube
 
I use the Bass Amp Designer in Logic, but they have a slider that lets you control the mix between the straight signal and "direct box" which eliminates the speaker cab emulation (IR is my guess). I generally have it somewhere in between, and move one way or the other depending on the quality I am trying to find. I never go without at least a bass amp sim in the path, even if it's real clean. (Now that I have it, I've started using my GAP73 preamp's DI vs straight in to the Focusrite though because it adds a hair of compression, or feels like it.)
 
I think the standard practice is to record both and blend to taste, at least with rock. Warren Huart says most mixers low pass the DI and high-pass the amp, so you get the bottom end from the DI and the mids from the amp.
 
keith.rogers said:
I use the Bass Amp Designer in Logic, but they have a slider that lets you control the mix between the straight signal and "direct box" which eliminates the speaker cab emulation (IR is my guess). I generally have it somewhere in between, and move one way or the other depending on the quality I am trying to find. I never go without at least a bass amp sim in the path, even if it's real clean. (Now that I have it, I've started using my GAP73 preamp's DI vs straight in to the Focusrite though because it adds a hair of compression, or feels like it.)
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I do the same thing, use logic and set the blend. But I did do a recording recently just using a SS amp and no DI and I like how it came out.
 
easlern said:
I do the same thing, use logic and set the blend. But I did do a recording recently just using a SS amp and no DI and I like how it came out.
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If I have a real bass player and can mic their amp (not reasonable at my house), it's going to sound pretty good. Me playing bass, not so much ;)
 
easlern said:
I think the standard practice is to record both and blend to taste, at least with rock. Warren Huart says most mixers low pass the DI and high-pass the amp, so you get the bottom end from the DI and the mids from the amp.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you're talking about the amp head. Not the cab. I think they mix/blend the DI and the amp sound, but do they use a cabinet for the bass? That's what I'm wondering. I'm thinking no.
 
keith.rogers said:
I use the Bass Amp Designer in Logic, but they have a slider that lets you control the mix between the straight signal and "direct box" which eliminates the speaker cab emulation (IR is my guess). I generally have it somewhere in between, and move one way or the other depending on the quality I am trying to find. I never go without at least a bass amp sim in the path, even if it's real clean. (Now that I have it, I've started using my GAP73 preamp's DI vs straight in to the Focusrite though because it adds a hair of compression, or feels like it.)
Click to expand...

So, you're using a blend of DI (through amp) and a cab? That's what I'm getting at... do ppl actually use the cabs for recording/mixing, or are they more of a live performance piece.
 
andrushkiwt said:
So, you're using a blend of DI (through amp) and a cab? That's what I'm getting at... do ppl actually use the cabs for recording/mixing, or are they more of a live performance piece.
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If you're in a place where the bass player is using a cab, by all means mic it, but I'd take a DI out the amp back if there was one, too, or even use a DI in front of the amp if they don't mind/complain. Then you you have two things to play with. My own experience (recording out) is I go out the DI in the back of the amp since it seems like they always have one anymore and then just work with that. I still run it through a clean preamp with a cab sim and play with the mix, but that's probably because I don't know any better, and don't really have time/equipment to run 2 bass channels.

I guess, to me, one track is probably enough for most music, but, like I said, if you've got a real bass player with their own rig, and can set up to capture it, it's probably worth having, and they usually prefer their own sound.
 
The cab is an important part of the sound imho, I wasn’t aware people recorded direct from amp.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I rarely mic an actual bass cab, almost never.
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So, for my recordings, which you've heard times over, I should consider ditching the virtual cab? Just go DI into the TSE BOD, to virtual amp head, disengage the cab, then to compressor and EQ?

I tried it this afternoon and sounds pretty good. I'm wondering if the cab was adding extra boominess and muddying it up.
 
I'd start with a bias toward less processing and add if needed. So I suppose that means not using a real or simulated cab unless the sound really needs more character. I find that clarity and smoothness of the mids helps the bass a lot in many situations. Micing a cab tends to muddy things, as you seem to have found out. But if it sounds flat (as in boring, not off pitch) then try the cab.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Micing a cab tends to muddy things, as you seem to have found out. But if it sounds flat (as in boring, not off pitch) then try the cab.
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Yeah, the cab track is muddier (flat EQ engaged) than the amp head/DI track. Once I started EQ'ing, I found I had to do less of it with the DI track. The cab one needs a lot of EQ to fit the mix. It's heavier, but boomier and just muddy. I'll prob skip the cab from now on.
 
It really depends on the role the bass plays in the song and the genre you are recording. I like to mic the cab when the bass is a featured part and also if there is a lot of five string low string stuff. The cab/speakers seem to make the really low stuff easier to mix. I have the same experience running straight into the 2i2. I have been using several plugins depending again on the part. I have three of the "artist" bass modules from waves which actually work quite well. I also have/use Bass AMp Room from softtube, the PIA Bassmaster head sim , etc. I actually like to use a passive DI even though technically it isn't needed but I like the sound (usually)
 
Depending on genre I typically run direct through the Vintech X73i with PSP Vintage Warmer inserted. Then a second mic'd track. Depends on what the bass player uses for an amp but I like to get a simple 'real' recorded via speaker signal to mix in as well. Sometimes just that bass amp thru a Marshall Cabinet with a 57. Seems to work better adding some distortion to the mic track. Or if not right for the tune, you can get a bit more 'grit' in the bass tone.

As always, it just personal taste...
 
jimmys69 said:
....to mix in as well. Sometimes just that bass amp thru a Marshall Cabinet with a 57. Seems to work better adding some distortion to the mic track. Or if not right for the tune, you can get a bit more 'grit' in the bass tone.
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Thanks. I'll try blending some combos then. I'm using a DI/mpeg Pro head setup for my current project. Next time around, I'll throw the cab channel back in, but I'll try blending it with the DI one. Maybe on the DI one I'll ditch the amp head and just use the TSE BOD and put the amp head only on the cab channel.

Some things to play around with now. Thanks
 
andrushkiwt said:
Thanks. I'll try blending some combos then. I'm using a DI/mpeg Pro head setup for my current project. Next time around, I'll throw the cab channel back in, but I'll try blending it with the DI one. Maybe on the DI one I'll ditch the amp head and just use the TSE BOD and put the amp head only on the cab channel.

Some things to play around with now. Thanks
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Always worth playing with different options when you have them. Sometimes it is the best thing ever, sometimes a total waste of time. Never the same for any project.

But hey, we have unlimited tracks right? :)

And ugh...

Cheers man!
 
andrushkiwt said:
So... do ppl actually use the cabs for recording/mixing, or are they more of a live performance piece.
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If one has the room and can make the noise, hell yeah! People use bass cabs for recording, reamping, ect all the time.

Cabs, they're more than just a pretty stage ornament at a gig ;)
 
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