Am I cut out for a career in audio engineering?

FattMusiek

FattMusiek

New member
I'm planning on going to learn about the recording arts from a studio/school called the Omega School of Recording Arts in Rockville, Maryland. I believe I have talent in this field. I'm planning on persuing it professionally, but I was never very good at math; I was always much better at english. I tend to process information better in words rather than numbers. I was looking at a thread in the microphones forum called "Logariths..." and saw very complicated math problems (very complicated to me, at least). In high school I absolutely hated math. Freshman year I took Algebra 1 and failed, failed again sophomore year, took it and passed in summer school (mostly because I cheated off the guy who sat next to me. Don't worry, he was a cool guy and was cool with me doing it. I owe a lot to that guy! Please, no lectures on my lowly cheating...) Junior year I took Algebra 2 and failed. Finally, I took Geometry and passed with a D+ (so close to a C though!). I seemed to understand Geometry better than Algebra but still had some trouble. I attribute my lack of math skills to my terrible Pre-Algebra teacher in 8th grade, but I must take responsibility for my own non-chalant attitude towards math.

Recording myself, as well as others, is pretty much my life. It's what makes me feel like I'm doing something worthwhile on this planet. My life revolves around music. Despite what others say in this thread, I'm going to persue a career in audio. I would, however, would like to hear what you all have to say about my plight.

Thanks in advance.
 
FattMusiek said:
I'm planning on going to learn about the recording arts from a studio/school called the Omega School of Recording Arts in Rockville, Maryland. I believe I have talent in this field. I'm planning on persuing it professionally, but I was never very good at math; I was always much better at english. I tend to process information better in words rather than numbers. I was looking at a thread in the microphones forum called "Logariths..." and saw very complicated math problems (very complicated to me, at least). In high school I absolutely hated math. Freshman year I took Algebra 1 and failed, failed again sophomore year, took it and passed in summer school (mostly because I cheated off the guy who sat next to me. Don't worry, he was a cool guy and was cool with me doing it. I owe a lot to that guy! Please, no lectures on my lowly cheating...) Junior year I took Algebra 2 and failed. Finally, I took Geometry and passed with a D+ (so close to a C though!). I seemed to understand Geometry better than Algebra but still had some trouble. I attribute my lack of math skills to my terrible Pre-Algebra teacher in 8th grade, but I must take responsibility for my own non-chalant attitude towards math.

Recording myself, as well as others, is pretty much my life. It's what makes me feel like I'm doing something worthwhile on this planet. My life revolves around music. Despite what others say in this thread, I'm going to persue a career in audio. I would, however, would like to hear what you all have to say about my plight.

Thanks in advance.
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it all depends on how indepth you want to get into it all. recording gear is comprised of electronics which with no doubt is followed by math. Audio recording in general can be too....frequencies, phasing, electronic conectors, amplitude, delay times converted to BPM, dB equations, etc.
You're bound to hit some math some time or another. Just roll with the punches and you can get through it.
 
The fact that you were better with geometry is promising.

But most really top-flight AE's I know were geometry wizzes. We're not talkin' D+ guys. We're talking people who just kinda' show up to half their classes, do no homework, but still ace all of their geometry tests due to reviewing their notes in the 10 minutes they have before class starts and the test is handed out. I don't know what it is, but something about the abstract reasoning and visualization involved in that subject. Sound follows geometric and logarithmatic principles. And the ability to "see music" involves being able to abstractly visualize it's behavior.

I'm only half-kidding. If you have the overwhelming drive, and you have the ability to get your feet in doors and understand how to self-promote ... then you've got a really good shot at it. But understand that you should always have something to fall back on. It's not an easy field to get in to. And it's not the biggest money-maker either. Pursuing your passion is important. But then again, so is having a roof over your head and being able to afford a few nice things once in a while. :D

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Music is math... I'm not one to tell anyone they can't do anything, but the new generation of audio engineers (at least the successful ones) are going to be the guys who can do it all. You're going to need to easily and quickly understand math, computer programming, business, and electrical engineering and quickly grasp the concepts that go along with. Having a strong background in these will keep you at the very least on par with your competition.

But never let some shitheads at a homerecording site tell you you can't do something. If it's what makes you happy then go for it... I guess all I'm saying is always have a back up plan in case things go downhill.

Good luck!
 
Audio Engineering can be approached from the left side of the brain or the right side, but to really be aces at it requires using both sides virtually simultaneously.

It's one think to have an "ear" for music and sound, but it's anothr thing altogether to know how those sounds relate to the tools in front of you. Conversely, it's one thing to have a natural understanding of the functions behind compression ratios or tempo/delay relationships, it's another thing to know how and when those functions relate to the feeling behind the listening experience.

Audio engineering at its foundation is the process of imagining a sound and then delivering it using the tools available. This requires the following skillsets:

1.) Creative imagination
2.) A fundamental knowledge of music theory
3.) A fundamental knowledge of acoustic theory
4.) A well-developed sense of hearing
5.) Operational knowledge of the available engineering tools
6.) Application of creative technique using said tools

These skillsets are a mix of both intrinsic and learned skills. They are also a mix of both the creative and the analytical sides of the brain.

AE requires some math, but unless you want to dive really heavy into electrical and acoustic theory, none of the bread and butter math should be that complicated. However, organizational and analytical skills are very important; this is self-evident when you have 25 tracks of music and you need to figure out why they don't sound good together ;).

Chess is right that your tendancy towards geometry is promising; the visualization required for that kind of thinking goes a lot futher in this field than the rigors of trigonometry will. But if you can handle basic intro algebra, you can handle things like compression ratios, Ohms Law, decibel conversions and such, and should be fine for 90% of this stuff without having to break too much of a sweat.

G.
 
A career Audio Engineering is an affliction not a choice. If you have the disease (and it sounds like you do) welcome to the asylum!
 
masteringhouse said:
A career Audio Engineering is an affliction not a choice. If you have the disease (and it sounds like you do) welcome to the asylum!
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Damn, that's poetic. Well put.
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Glen's post was great. Right on the money, but just to add to it:

People skills will have more to do with success in this biz than math. It can not be overstated how important that is, and its not relaly taught in schools.

Also a lot of recording schools lie to kids telling them that getting into audio is a viable career choice. Its not. Its a terrible career choice with an insanely high failure rate. If you graduate with a degree from a recording school and actually have a job in music recording you will most likely be making far less money than if you had gone straight into working at a fast food joint.

I get asked by people a lot what I think about them going into a career in music recording, and the answer is always the same: "If there is anything else in life you could do annd be happy than you should go and do that."

The business world of recording is really really bad right now and its for the most part getting worse every year. I am lucky that I have had a good career and still do, but I got into the game early and was able to get some good credits under my belt. But the reality is that labels have slashed budgets and the old system of getting to be an assistant and work your way up is pretty much gone.

I would never tell some one not to do it, but I think people should know what they are getting into. It will most likely be a life of heartbreak and almost constant financial hardship. The great thing is that if you actually get to work in music recording (a big long shot) then music gets to be the center of your life which is awesome. But if there is anything else in life that is more important to you than making records than you should definatley find something else to do.
 
do you want to hear the same bad song 369.5 times, and not tell the person what you really think?
now imagine that that person is completely neurotic. and needy.
and lonely. and having his mid-life crisis.

cause it'll happen some day, if you're lucky. :)
 
Well hmmm....

I'm going through one of these audio engineering programs right now.

Heres how one of my teachers broke down the money thing to the class...

So how many of you want to work in a studio?

All the class raised there hand.

So how many of you want to do live sound?

About 1/2 of the class raised there hand.

So how many of you want to do music for film or commercials?

About a 1/3 raised there hand.

Okay how many of you are interested in doing sound for lectures given by corporations?

Maybe 2 or 3 people in a classroom of 30 raised there hand.

His next reply was guess who makes the most money.

My take on the conversation; if you are going to do audio keep your options open.
 
Tom said exactly what you need to hear.

That entire first paragraph....probably not so relevant. The second paragraph is what will determine your course in audio engineering.

I can personally relate to this, but perhaps if I elaborate a little on my personal experience, then maybe you'll have just another point of view of what kind of industry this is. Perhaps me being young relates more to your story (or not).

I am a 22 year old audio engineer, and I can say that cause I work at this for a living. The first time I realized how unglamorus and sacrificial this job really is, I almost had a nervous break down. I was working on a level that I didn't think I was cut out for, with people that had a list of credits you wouldn't beleive. I mean I'm talkin everything from Prince, to Little Richard, to Michael Jackson, Fania All Stars to Herbie Hanncock himself. Loads of people. Those are the kina people I get to laugh with and work for these days. Of course, I can't expect to be an Al Schmitt at 22, so I have to wait my time until the opportunity comes.

However, that nervous period lasted a short time. It's your addiction, as tom put it, that'll make you forget that.

I did the school, I did the internships on occasion, I did the bullshit jobs on the side. But I think the real learning came from just talking to people. Networking. I found you have to develope somewhat of a charm to really get the juicy information. To obtain the real secrets of the biz.

Half of the learning is actually doing, but the other half is really just watching people and somehow getting them to trust you with personal information.

It can be very political. So if you feel the internal push to succeed and you don't mind failing a few million times, this job is cut out just for you.

I could tell you that you'd have to know everything there is to know about processors, time based units, acoustics, eletronics...whatever. And yeah, in time you'll know alot about that, but the right attitude is really being a servant for a while.

The money is not the greatest thing you will see. That's just part of this business. You can only hope to see extremely good pay if you're working on high demand projects. An Andy Wallace if you will. He seems to be one of the "it" guys for the moment.

Eventually, some engineers try producing cause thats where the better pay is at. I personally aspire to try that someday myself. I figure I have a great classroom to learn from, so it's only logical.

You'd be surprised about certain facts though, too. You can never take anything for face value in this industry. You learn to *secretly* be sceptical of certain things, but that's the natural process of growing; to question oneself and test theories. I myself have never been satisfied with anything I do, so that's my push. I always want to know more...and more....and more...and more....and more. Again, it's like a compulsion. A twisted obession that can damage ears or cause you to lose sanity if you let it. ;)


But of the shocking things in this biz, if you can bullshit well enough, you can get pretty far. Again, it's political.

For example, (witholding names)

There's a veteran engineer around my area who's done work for capitol, colombia, epic, you name it, he's done it. This guy was one of the monsters of latin jazz recording. He's been at it around 30+ years and beleive me, I never met the guy cause I was afraid to. Honestly I would of eventually, but I was advised not to cause he's a legendary prick.

Anyway, the other day, I find out that he just finished purchasing 30 grand worth of gear for his home studio. A bunch of Pro Tools HD stuff, brand new Trident console, the works. And you know what? He sent it all back. Why?
Cause he could never put it together.

That was shocking to me. That an engineer of his caliber can manage to not have a clue of how to rig up a basic studio. He even called in a good buddy of mine, who happens to be a techincal genius and he concluded that the guy just didn't have a clue on how to purchase the right gear.

But there are many stories just like that happening everyday.Anyway, the stories can go on forever.

The point is, if you are truely willing to learn everyday of your life as engineer and take a few blows every now and then, you'll do fine.

Just always remember to weigh out the situation and follow my very simple motto:

"Know your gear and trust your ear"

Who knows, maybe I'll be shaking your hand in congradulations of a grammy award in a few years from now, I look foward to it. :).


Lee
 
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Thanks for the great responses! Your perspectives have given me a pretty good idea of what's required of me in this business. Even though most of you mention the hardships, I still am willing to go through with it. So the pay truly isn't that great, huh? Could anyone give me an idea of the wages in this industry? I definitely do not want to be broke, but this is what I strive to be. Ten years down the line who knows where I'll be, but it will involve music and recording in some way. One of my real dreams is to write short, catchy songs for companies to use for their shows, broadcasts, and movies. With all these perspectives, I think doing something like this could be my fallback plan just in case I don't cut it in this industry. Someone on this message board once told me that my "Harmony Song" (on my NWR page under 2004) should be the intro to some sports news show. During my senior year I was usually the one behind the mixer in my school's TV production room. We used "Harmony Song" to fade the anchors out into the credits, as well as some of my other songs during various points in the broadcast. It made me feel great knowing that a wide audience was hearing me. The people who didn't care at all about TV production and just goofed off would always complain to me and say "Put in this rap song!". No chance. :cool:

I would still love to hear more advice and your experiences!
 
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One step at a time man!

On the songwriting thing, the only advice I have is this, and this I was told by a very genius jazz composer:

"Everything in this world is symetrical or abundant in the elements of symetry"

Wages:

Beer, returned favors, equipment rental or possible future opportunities. Moneywise: Nothing to probably 50 bucks an hour (on average).
 
If you go independant, how much money you make depends entirely on how many jobs you can book. It just like local musicians. I know a couple of musicians who are making *well* into six figures a year because they hustled to get some regular and semi-nightly bookings and hustle even more to fill up the blank dates in between. These guys have quit their day jobs a long time ago and live higher on the hog than I do by working only 3 hours a night. I know other musicians who just wait to get calls and don't hustle bookings at all. They're lucky to get three gigs a year, and they wonder why.

It's similar on this side of the dials. The only way I stay in business is by spreading my net wider and working with multimedia and not just music (though music is my starting passion.) Right now I'm putting together a 2-hour video on one project as well as re-mixing two new songs on another project. Plus a live gig tomorrow night. Once the video is done I have a web-based project to work on for a couple of weeks. Out of those four projects, three of them are jobs that I got from return customers that I harvested by offering them some free services once upon a time so I could get my foot in their door and showcase my talent. If I just gave those guys my card and waited for a call, it would never have come an I'd be sitting here with nothing to eat.

Ya gotta hustle for you work, be creative in how and where you get it. and be passionate about doing it. Otherwise it's just a part-time hobby that costs you big money instead of making you any money at all.

The old days of the big music studios may be gone, but in my experience, if you live near enough people you can find a nebulous but fruitful market for independant production (audio, video, web, podcasts, live events). Just look at this board; every newb that comes on here wants to make a commercial-quality CD but none have the slightest idea of how. Unfortunately most of them also have no money ;). But there are enough that do to show that there's a market for independant production in general. The same is true for entry-level actors, writers, comedians, etc. And every one of these people wants to use the new digital technologies to make their own productions of some type and hawk them in the Internet in one form or another.

It's a tough business, of that there is no question. Chances of failure are higher than one would like. But frankly I disagree with one sentiment expressed in this thread by people I normally agree with. I am not going say that you're going to starve and always have one foot in the grave and all that stuff, because if you truely believe that, it will become a self-fulfilling prophacy.

Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! That's the attitude that will make you money.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Out of those four projects, three of them are jobs that I got from return customers that I harvested by offering them some free services once upon a time so I could get my foot in their door and showcase my talent. If I just gave those guys my card and waited for a call, it would never have come an I'd be sitting here with nothing to eat.
G.
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;) note bold

i've turned free song into a full length album project more than once.
 
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