Vocals and music for Theater,what to do?

Simspajt

Simspajt

New member
I help in one theater group. We rented one small studio where we recorded vocals-text for one theater show and then i done some short music pieces and paste over vocals. But now i need for some inputs on how to mix this raw recorded tracks.
What i should add on vocals? Only some reverb and EQ? I don't have any clue how vocals for THEATER should sound?
I will be thankfull for any sugestions. Or if someone will try to do some mix master on this track it would be awsome.
And please write down what you added so i can try to duplicate on another 20 tracks. I have only two weeks.View attachment R.21.ENAINDVAJSETI PRIZOR.mp3
Thank you in advance.
 
In my view, the most important thing to do is apply some compression to even out the levels. The male voice is a bit quieter than the female's laugh. That may be natural, but it may not come across well in a theatre.

I can't comment on EQ. It is probably okay, but you would need to play it in the theatre to see how clearly it comes across, and maybe adjust accordingly.

I notice that the male voice is a bit boxy at the start, which is probably a result of the room in which it was recorded.

I would not add any reverb. There's a good chance that the theatre has enough of its own. Adding any more will just make a mess.
 
gecko zzed said:
In my view, the most important thing to do is apply some compression to even out the levels. I can't comment on EQ. It is probably okay, but you would need to play it in the theatre to see how clearly it comes across, and maybe adjust accordingly.
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Yes, i'll try with compression. On thursday we will have rehersall in the theater where the event will be in two weeks and when the players will left i have a whole night to checking the playback sistem.
Do you think it's a good idea to make final mix there on those JBL speakers? We will have there two shows in two days but afterthat we have many shows in other theaters where i dont have a clue about speakers.
Thank you very much for your time. I wish you all the best.
 
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I would NOT apply compression for the same reason as the reverb - for play in music, speech and effects in theatre we like dry and clean vocals and no excessive EQ. We can add compression if we need it, and to be honest, we rarely use it because it tends to stop it cutting through. The voices need closer miking, to remove room sound, and the male voice is very bass heavy - so needs to be cleaner as he has a deep voice. Many theatre audio systems have plenty of bass so again, we can easily add it - but ideally would like a nice clean and bright sound source. What you need to do is separate the music from the dialogue. record speech to one channel and music to the other, or if the music is not needed to be absolutely in sync, then record it as a separate track and let the sound op control it as a separate source - handy because then it can be faded out late if need be to extend a scene slightly. Most theatres can playback two or more sound sources at a time, it's a common requirement. You could record male left, female right on one CD or memory stick/card/MD and the music can go on another. The op simply plays them in as required. Many theatres now play in their sound from computer, using dedicated playback systems that load up music, effects and dialogue and play them out on cue, or in sequences look at QLab on Macs and things like SFX for PCs. Plenty of others, including some free ones are available too.
 
Huh, you threw a lot of new stuff here to my brains. Now i'm really scared:facepalm: since i don't know with what system i'll be doing there and considering that i am a mixing greenhorn...
I have 21 raw speech tracks here, already mixed with music and two weeks to achive the best result i could. Huge challenge for me. Anyway,
I guess i must wait until thursday to see my options. Right now i'm adding a litlle compresion just to see the diference comparing with raw tracks in theather.
Rob, thank you very much!!!:thumbs up:
 
rob aylestone said:
I would NOT apply compression for the same reason as the reverb - for play in music, speech and effects in theatre we like dry and clean vocals and no excessive EQ. We can add compression if we need it, and to be honest, we rarely use it because it tends to stop it cutting through. The voices need closer miking, to remove room sound, and the male voice is very bass heavy - so needs to be cleaner as he has a deep voice. Many theatre audio systems have plenty of bass so again, we can easily add it - but ideally would like a nice clean and bright sound source. What you need to do is separate the music from the dialogue. record speech to one channel and music to the other, or if the music is not needed to be absolutely in sync, then record it as a separate track and let the sound op control it as a separate source - handy because then it can be faded out late if need be to extend a scene slightly. Most theatres can playback two or more sound sources at a time, it's a common requirement. You could record male left, female right on one CD or memory stick/card/MD and the music can go on another. The op simply plays them in as required. Many theatres now play in their sound from computer, using dedicated playback systems that load up music, effects and dialogue and play them out on cue, or in sequences look at QLab on Macs and things like SFX for PCs. Plenty of others, including some free ones are available too.
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I'm not sure why compression would tend to stop it cutting through. You will need to explain that to me.

Theatres have varying levels of sophistication in their audio set ups, and varying levels of sophistication in the skills of their audio operators.

I'm not sure what Simspajt has to deal with, but if it's anything like our local community theatre, then it is not overly endowed. Splitting voice and music and mixing them independently is not an unreasonable idea, but I wouldn't do it in our theatre. It could be done, but it adds a level of complexity that is adding to the burden of an audio operator who frequently is also the lighting operator and the AV operator.
 
Compression in recordings is normally a useful tool, but in live sound, the dynamic range is often very, very wide - especially in theatre where one minute the level is so low you can hear the actors whisper and then maybe next moment there is an explosion. If you compress speech it doesn't match the environment, and then the lack of dynamic range after compression can make it a bit muffled. Fine in a recording, and of course good for a rock gig - but for speech, having it clean and then being able to add effects and processing live work best.

We do theatre sound, lighting and production and the sound tracks we are supplied with vary between disgraceful and rather good. I can see that in a smaller venue, a premixed stereo recording can work - but the damn things we seem to get always have too much or too little M&E, and there's nothing we can do. When we do our own sound production, separate tracks are the way to go. The biggest issue with spoken word is that the sound change between a half empty house and a full house means very different fader positions - and not being able to pull away the music from the vocals is a bad compromise.

I'm not quite sure what the recording actually will be, and what is the purpose. For some things a premix works fine - many shows have radio sets, that have to work and the actors react to the broadcast - and its very common to have to produce American old-time radio programmes with perhaps the news attached. These work fine, but trying to play in recorded dialogue that a real actor interacts with is horrible. Uncompressed is the only way, because the humans are uncompressed. All this said, most people in the audience won't notice unless it suddenly stops!
 
That all makes sense. With our wide dynamic range, sometimes the level is so low (particularly with kids) that it falls below the noise threshold of the audience. My suggestion about compressing the material was to reduce the dynamic range so that it could all be kept above the noise floor of the venue.

I can also see the difference in the use of the recording within the play, and how it would be problematic if the recording has to sound like another actor on stage. I haven't had to do that.
 
I agree that it does seem odd to view compression sort of in reverse. In fact, in one venue we work in regularly, and leave the equipment in, we have a rack of 16 compressors - it's not even been connected for two years. The X32 we also use has compression on each channel without any fiddling around patching, and for theatre, again we rarely use it. In rock and roll? Very different. Some theatre sound designers do use compression - I have to say that, but usually only when every sound source is miked. It's just weird sounding when you have natural voices to contend with.
 
rob aylestone said:
These work fine, but trying to play in recorded dialogue that a real actor interacts with is horrible. Uncompressed is the only way, because the humans are uncompressed.
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Thats the way how the play it's gonna be, real actors will speak also live, without headmics with interact with recorded speech and even across some music. I'll try with uncompesed tracks and i must be very carefull with volume actors-tapes matching since i'm gonna be an audio operater.
But spliting speech from music and playback them on separate takes would be a hard task for me cause i also have other things to do and theres also a lot sounds and special efects in it. So i must follow the idea of making the best posible mix i can.
Otherwise i play guitar in one r'n r band but i do a favor to those actor group where my wife also act. It's hard challenge for me but i'm used to recive roten tomatos on stage:laughings:
 
If you haven't knocked up the masters yet - do consider a left and right split of voice vs music and effects - you probably are using two mixer channels so it's an easy job to pan both centre, and then for most of the time you just shove both faders, but you still have the option to pull one or the other back or give it a bit extra.
 
rob aylestone said:
If you haven't knocked up the masters yet - do consider a left and right split of voice vs music and effects - you probably are using two mixer channels so it's an easy job to pan both centre, and then for most of the time you just shove both faders, but you still have the option to pull one or the other back or give it a bit extra.
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That is a very practical way of doing it.

However, the little mixer we have doesn't have faders. It just has a rotary volume knob for its stereo line in channels and a balance pot. Making the left/right thing work would be tricky.

The OP may have better mixing facilities.
 
The funny thing about theatre sound is that many people doing it reject technology. The guy who works for me has the option of computers, card readers, MD players and CDs - and wherever he can, he picks CD and MD. Mini Disc is considered dead technology now, but so many people love it, it will hang on for quite a while.

We do draw the line at cassettes now - we still get them supplied, but they've never been any good for theatre, and so despite having a few cassette decks in the graveyard, publicly we don't have the equipment. Some are gobsmacked - one told me he'd been thinking about Compact Discs, and had heard good things about them! Wow!
 
Last night we have a rehersal in that theather. I used my PC direct into the mixdesk and everyone were suprised with excelent sound, panning, no unwanted noice etc. I'm sooooo happy and finaly relaxed. Thank you both for all your tips!:thumbs up:
 
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