yet another reason...

[andrushkiwt]

...to never go by exact settings.

I'm currently putting a compressor onto a track to catch some peaks before the limiter does its job. I tried out 2 diff compressors...

The first was set to get a max reduction of 2.5db (my preference for this track, more sounded not good) and I achieved that by setting the ratio to 1.7 and the threshold to -13.42. It sounded ok. But still I wanted to see what another "feedback compressor" would do instead.

So I bypass the first and then insert the FC (made by TDR) and aim for the same as the last comp. I set my ratio, then move the threshold down to -13.42....and I wait....and wait...and nothing. Not a single fluctuation on the meter. Ok...another db or so maybe...still nothing. I could not achieve 2db of reduction until -20.7!

The attack time on the first comp was actually slower! It was the minimum...0.1 while the second comp was faster at 0.01!
The first "Should have" knocked everything down later..but nope.

Even within the same track, and the same instruments, settings vary...so for those out there copying settings...please...it will never ever be the same. Don't do it. The algorithms of these vsts vary widely. Gain reduction is a better spot to aim for than ratio.

If I ever ask someone for help here, PM or otherwise, I try to remember to ask "why". Understanding the "why" leads to other questions being answered before you need to ask them.

 

[jimmys69]

Every VST compressor is going to be different. Some like the 'PSP Vintage Warmer' are more of a saturation tool. Those react way different to the input level given to them.

Many plugs that emulate a piece of outboard gear are expecting the equivalent of 0dB. The -18 or so in dBFS. One inserted plugin may not react the same as another, and surely you will not be able to A/B them with consistency.

If you wish to get a better idea as to how one plug sounds in relation to another, you will be better off sending to two different group channels (or whatever your DAW calls them). Place the different comps on each and SOLO them separately. Just selecting a different plug as an insert without changing the input level the plug likes will likely set you off to crazy 'WTF' land.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Every VST compressor is going to be different. Some like the 'PSP Vintage Warmer' are more of a saturation tool. Those react way different to the input level given to them.

Many plugs that emulate a piece of outboard gear are expecting the equivalent of 0dB. The -18 or so in dBFS. One inserted plugin may not react the same as another, and surely you will not be able to A/B them with consistency.

If you wish to get a better idea as to how one plug sounds in relation to another, you will be better off sending to two different group channels (or whatever your DAW calls them). Place the different comps on each and SOLO them separately. Just selecting a different plug as an insert without changing the input level the plug likes will likely set you off to crazy 'WTF' land.

I see that. But I was able to get them very close in gain reduction... Is there something I'm missing that that won't let me see in a comparison?

 

[jimmys69]

I see that. But I was able to get them very close in gain reduction... Is there something I'm missing that that won't let me see in a comparison?

I am not sure. The fact that every plug is different means that a true 'comparison' is not possible. I mean that you won't be able to make one sound exactly like another. I may not be understanding exactly what you are asking...

 

[andrushkiwt]

I am not sure. The fact that every plug is different means that a true 'comparison' is not possible. I mean that you won't be able to make one sound exactly like another. I may not be understanding exactly what you are asking...

Well the first post wasn't really a question. More of a moment of clarity. I did ask though that if I matched gain reduction along w attack and release, that I could compare side by side. If the answer is no Because "they aren't the same units", then I suppose we could never actually compare anything in the universe because comparing means they are different to begin with! We account for comparisons by their end result...that goes for anything in this world.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Did either comp have input gain?
I'm guessing the first one did. That'd mean the input signal is amplified before hitting the compressor and, therefore, a higher threshold would result in compression than if there was no input gain.

Across a range of compressors you'll find, or not find, input gain, output (makeup) gain, fixed thresholds, variable thresholds...There's a number of ways to manage the same thing.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Did either comp have input gain?
I'm guessing the first one did. That'd mean the input signal is amplified before hitting the compressor and, therefore, a higher threshold would result in compression than if there was no input gain.

Across a range of compressors you'll find, or not find, input gain, output (makeup) gain, fixed thresholds, variable thresholds...There's a number of ways to manage the same thing.

They both have input gain. Neither had any amount put into it. Just saying how different vst's are and how they react based on their programming. There wasn't any factor on my end to attribute to its reading of the signal.

 

[Steenamaroo]

IDK, I've never directly compared compressors in that way but I'd expect them all to react at the same time if all else is equal.
7db seems like an awful lot to put down to differences in algorithms.
Is the knee adjustable on both comps and, if so, were they set the same?

What were the two specific plugin models?

 

[andrushkiwt]

IDK, I've never directly compared compressors in that way but I'd expect them all to react at the same time if all else is equal.
7db seems like an awful lot to put down to differences in algorithms, all the same.

Is the knee adjustable on both comps and, if so, were they set the same?

What were the two specific plugin models?

Both with the same knee. Straight kick no curve. Studio One stock comp and TDR Feedback Compressor.

I really don't care much, just making an observation...! It does seem like a lot. I went over all the parameters to make sure nothing else was off between them.

 

[Steenamaroo]

The latter has a switch for RMS or peak detection which, I guess, could make the difference.

Also, try putting one of the plugs in line but set threshold so high that it's not compressing, set output/makeup gain to 0, then bypass/enable the plug.
Do the same with the other.
If you hear a difference in volume doing that with either plug, then I suppose it's got some kind of built in input gain in additional to the control you have.

 

[RAMI]

The latter has a switch for RMS or peak detection which, I guess, could make the difference.

I was just about to say it might just be the meters. One of them might be set to display something different than the other one. Hell, a lot of those things have the choice of displaying Input, Output, Gain Reduction, Peak, RMS, etc.... and maybe a few other things I can't think of right now.

Every plug-in is different. But you shouldn't have that much of a discrepancy between compressors with all things being set equal.

Your thread should actually be titled...."Yet another reason.............not to mix with your eyes.".

 

[Steenamaroo]

All true but just to be clear, I think that particular peak/RMS switch is to do with detection rather than metering, meaning it would affect how/how much the signal is compressed rather than how the meter displays the results.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Your thread should actually be titled...."Yet another reason.............not to mix with your eyes.".

I don't like that idea. My eyes tell me my mixes sound great and that's all the info I need.

 

[RAMI]

All true but just to be clear, I think that particular peak/RMS switch is to do with detection rather than metering, meaning it would affect how/how much the signal is compressed rather than how the meter displays the results.

Really? You sure. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm thinking it depends on the unit? Because I thought it was just metering. How does a compressor detect Peak or RMS? I thought a compressor just compresses based on its' ratio, threshold, input signal, attack, release, etc....I don't know how detecting peak or RMS falls into that.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Yeah, I think so. I saw a pic of that compressor and the selection was labelled 'detector'.
I'm not really all that clued in on peak vs RMS detection but I know it's a thing and could maybe explain what's going on here.

Edit:I just did a bit of reading and the general idea seems to be that RMS detection/compression is more natural in the long term and will let peaks through.
I still don't completely understand it but I had a hunch that might be the idea.

A new signature, maybe.... "My mixes look great!"

 

[andrushkiwt]

I just wanted to make an observation. Now you guys are boring me.

I'll check it tomorrow. Ears are spent for tonight anyway. Carry on though, please!
I'll come back to something way off topic, I'm guessing.......

 

[andrushkiwt]

A new signature, maybe.... "My mixes look great!"

I need that. Now.

I do appreciate the input, I'll peek at it again tomorrow. You might be right...its something in the million settings this feedback one has. Can you wait or will the suspense kill you?

 

[Steenamaroo]

I just wanted to make an observation.

I guess you're kidding but there's no point drawing a conclusion without exhausting all the variables.
You could end up believing, and telling everyone else, that plugin operating levels are arbitrary when really you just used an RMS compressor and didn't know.

Now you guys are boring me.

Sorry. I'll just nod and smile next time.

 

[RAMI]

I guess you're kidding but there's no point drawing a conclusion without exhausting all the variables.
You could end up believing, and telling everyone else, that plugin operating levels are arbitrary when really you just used an RMS compressor and didn't know.



Sorry. I'll just nod and smile next time.

Yeah, kind of weird. I could have sworn what we're talking about is directly related to the question. Ok, I'll know for next time.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Yeah, kind of weird. I could have sworn what we're talking about is directly related to the question. Ok, I'll know for next time.

Did my sarcasm not make it through the screen? Geez guys, So serious!

Yeah let me test it out tomorrow. I did toggle the limiter option, and nothing kicked in any sooner. I'll put it through more testing tomorrow to be safe.