volume managemt...what tools?

whymark

whymark

New member
Hi,I'm trying to get a better grip on volume management. I'm working with Cubase Elements 7 on a highly charged laptop running Win7 64 bit. I've been trying to keep the ST OUT peak as close to 0 as possible and usually hit -1 dB. In my readings on the subject I've learned that a peak of -3 dB and a RMS between -6 to -9 dB are preferred targets All I have (can find) is the ST OUT fader and its associated meter. With MIDI files I can't even control the length of time that the peak indicator remains lit so I'm forever clicking on it to reset it. With audio files this time can be set so that the peak indicator moves at set intervals. Cubase 7 supposedly comes with a MultiScope plug-in that displays both the peak and the (moving?) RMS. I can't find it. What is out there to help me monitor these parameters? I watched a tutorial that said it would teach me how to get consistent ST OUT volumes song after song. The technique, called parallel compression, was to take 1 audio track and duplicate it. Then insert a compressor into each track. The first track isn't touched at all but the second is squished flatter than the TX panhandle!. Then the second track is slowly added back to the first until some magic happens. To be honest, I couldn't detect any change while the severely compressed track was added back to the virgin track but, it could have been the tutorial itself. Anyway ,the second track was added back up to some point ant the guy says....".....and there you have it!!" . Do you have an idea how confused I am??....many thanks in advance..this site always comes through for me

mark
 
I sometimes use the TT DR Meter. Note that it only works on 44.1k/16 bit audio. There's an offline (for measuring audio files) version and a plugin version (for your master bus).

In Sony Vegas I can change the project settings to 44.1/16 to make the plugin version work and then back to my normal settings of 48/24. Not all DAWs can go back and forth like that without resampling all the audio files.

How you achieve you desired level is a whole different subject. It will almost always involve a mastering limiter at the end of a chain of processors. It could be as simple as just the limiter, an eq into the limiter or a whole bunch of processors stacked up. Then of course there's resampling and dithering/truncating if needed, which normally follows the audio processing.
 
Since you are talking about midi files, I will assume that you are trying to mix and master at the same time. This is a mistake. When you mix the song, just make it sound good and leave enough headroom for further processing in mastering.

After you have all your songs done, import the mixes into a separate session, line them up in order, then process each one according to it's needs and make them all the same volume there.

BTW, no matter what an RMS meter is telling you, you still have to use your ears. If one mix is really bright, it will sound louder than the darker ones, even though they are at the same level.
 
Not sure if this is of any help....but it's a metering/normalization tool from TC Electronics that gives folks a way to set loudness for a variety of delivery standards....and they happen to be running a sale on the app which happens to be ending to day.

LCn Loudness Correct | TC Electronic
 
OK, I just DL the TT DP meter...now to learn how it works....I'm too new at this game to work with anything but 44.1/16 so the Sony is unnecessary....thanks for the tip on the limiter at the end of the chain...I've been led to believe that EQ was always last....paradigms come and go

I'm working with both MIDI and audio files.....wasn't intentionally trying to mix and master simultaneously....on importing finished songs into a separate project; are they lined up on the same track e.g. Cubase's Arranger Track or lined up vertically one on tp of the other?.....good point about RMS in bright and dark songs....will have to get a feel for it over time but, at least I have something I can start with

can't remember where the -3 dB peak idea came from...something I picked up along the way but, now can't find the reference

Thanks to all
Mark
 
whymark said:
can't remember where the -3 dB peak idea came from...something I picked up along the way but, now can't find the reference
Click to expand...

Actually, there's no problem with -3 thing. In fact, most people will probably even go higher, like -.3 (notice the decimal). What I have issue with, and I'm surprised nobody else commented on this, is the "RMS level of -6 to -9". That's impossibly loud, and probably impossible to attain without distorting your mix to pieces. Once you start getting past the -11, -10 mark, you're talking serious loudness wars.
 
Mixing and mastering are two different processes.

When mixing, your biggest worry is to not clip the main output. It is nice to have 6db headroom or so at this stage for further processing, but as long as it doesn't clip, you are ok.

Mastering is where you put the CD together. You line the songs up, in order, and process each one to get them all about the same volume and overall tone. Basically, you are trying to make them sound like they belong together and transition well from one song to the next.

Cubase isn't the perfect platform to do this in, but it will work. It would probably be easier to put each song on it's own track, but have them set up so that song two doesn't start until after song one ends. The reason for putting them on their own track is so you can insert different processing on each song, if needed. You could also line them up on a single track and process them all the same, using the volume handles to adjust the relative volume of each song.

Once all the songs sound like they belong together, listen to them and determine if any overall EQ is needed across the entire project. If so, insert the EQ on the main output. Then, at the end, insert the mastering limiter after the EQ and lower the threshold until you get it to the desired loudness.

Since cubase doesn't burn CD's, you will have to 'mixdown' each song individually out of the project and put them in a burning program. Make sure you put the track number at the beginning of the song name, so they burn in the right order.
 
When dealing with RMS levels it's helpful to know if the measurement is based on a square wave or sine wave 0dB reference point. I believe the TT meter uses a 0dBFS peak sine wave. The RMS value it gives is generally about 3dB higher (smaller number) than the RMS measures in other software.
 
many thanks to all....every bit of this is extremely useful....the more I learn, the more fascinated I become...nice!
 
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