Mastering Software

No particular answer to that question without a reference. *Assuming* your monitoring chain isn't calibrated (you should probably get around to that), I'd say that "typically" (if that exists), the average rock/pop mix comes in around -24 to -20dB(FS)RMS with a crest of 16-18dB.

Safe bet -- just don't clip the main buss and you're in decent shape. A few dB of headroom (or 6 or 10 or 15) is a bonus.
 
When I setup my Master Track, I do it dry, with maybe little compression "if" needed correct ? What would the volume level look like on the Master Track?
Thank,
Don.....

You can get a dozen different answers to that.
I run mixes to be peaking between -10 and -6db - enough headroom that I avoid any peak clips or Inter sample Peaks.
 
Going back to this:
However when I listen to them in my car or on my stereo system they don't sound as good..... and they don't have the "brightness" that those tracks do.

When your mix sounds good in the studio and doesn't sound good in other places (living room, car, etc.), it isn't translating. That indicates a problem with you mixing environment; your monitors or, more likely, your mixing room. For home recording types, we only get one room to do everything in. We have to choose between making a good recording room or a good mixing room. I'd say it is always better to treat the room for mixing. It won't sound as 'alive' as a good recording room, but there are more work-arounds for that. If you can't hear your mixes accurately, you won't get a good mix. It will sound good in your studio because you are mixing to the audio response of your studio. It won't sound good anywhere else.

So, what is your mixing room like? dimensions? monitors? treatment?

For me, if I'm "Mastering" one song, I actually call it "finalizing". Mastering is all about creating a cohesive sounding collection of songs ready for mass production. When I finalize one song, I usually use a little global EQ and then a limiter to get the volume up. In the past couple of years, I learned that if I have to make more than just a small tweak on the EQ, I will go back to the mix and adjust it there.

I use wavelab elements, UAD plugs and Ozone 5. I don't use all that Ozone has to offer. Just the EQ section and the limiter.

Hope this helps
 
Yep. Same problem here when i first started in a bedroom. Built bass traps and got everything a lot closer sounding from the room to other different places
 
Thanks everyone for all your replies and suggestions. I’ve learned some things and have put some of them into practice already. As I proceed with my project others questions pop up. However I think it’s important for me to give you some background about me and my goals for this project.
I'm a 67 year old musician. I've been playing (or trying to play, as some might say) since I’m 14. I've spent most of my life on the other side of the sound deck. It’s only in recent years that I've delved into the “sound mixing side”. Much of it I don’t understand at first, and some of it never sinks in. But I’m trying to record songs that I’ve written over my life time. Some of them are almost 50 years old. I'm not looking for perfection or absolute perfect professional sounding mixes. I’d like to get the best sound I can on my songs so that I can give cds to family and friends as a remembrance of me when I'm no longer around. So, as you can probably figure out, I'm 67 now so I need to “step it up” a bit to get this project accomplished. I’d like to get 12 - 14 songs finished and onto a CD. I have maybe 10 of them completely recorded and mixed.
So now to my latest questions. I’ve recorded these songs with lots of headroom on each track. Somewhere between -18db and -12db (peak loudness). I use Reaper and have rendered each of these songs to a stereo track at about -10db (peak loudness). I have these song lined up in another Reaper project file and I’m ready to take the next step on the road to finishing them (or call it mastering or whatever).
What is the next step I should take or have I missed something? I realize that many of you are professionals at this and would do things much differently. I may to if I had your experience, knowledge and equipment but I’m not all that. I'm just a 67 year old “duffer” trying to do the best I can possibly do. I’d appreciate any advice and help I can get to help me achieve my goal.
Thanks,
Don…..
 
Thanks for the offer but I wasn't really looking for someone to do it for me I was looking to get some suggestions. I was hoping the information I posted might be enough for someone to help me get further along with my project. I'd like to learn as well as I go through this project. I have other things I'm going to record besides these 12 - 14 songs.

Thanks again,
Don.....
 
Thanks for the offer but I wasn't really looking for someone to do it for me I was looking to get some suggestions. I was hoping the information I posted might be enough for someone to help me get further along with my project. I'd like to learn as well as I go through this project. I have other things I'm going to record besides these 12 - 14 songs.

Thanks again,
Don.....

Nope, post a track so we can listen to it and say where we think you could make improvements if any are needed.
 
Now that you have them all lined up in one project, listen to each one. Take notes, actual notes. Listen for the differences between each song, paying attention to how much energy is in each freq range. Pay attention to how loud backing instruments are to the lead vocal, the kick, the bass, etc. Does each song match in this regard? Does the overall feel match up?

Compare similar songs to each other. Hard rock to hard rock, soft acoustic songs to soft acoustic songs. Compare verses of one song to verses other similar songs, do the same for the choruses, the soloes. Bounce around. Note all the differences. Pick one song that clearly defines who you are and sounds like your best effort. Deem that song the golden song and plan to make adjustments to match the other songs to the golden song. I use the lead vocal as the one element to compare loudness between each song.

If you find large discrepancies from one song to another, you should go back to the mix and fix it there. If the differences are little, apply some processing to make adjustments. Here's a little tip.... If all your songs are in Reaper, instead of putting them all on one track, split them out to individual tracks, but still maintain the spacing. Song 1 is on track 1 and ends at 4:00; Song 2 is on track 2 and starts at 4:02, etc... That way you can use plugs for each song individually if necessary. Then put a compressor and/or limiter on the master bus. (Hint: That's where you will get the volume up to commercial levels.... A whole 'nother thread, right there!!!)

Once you have done all that, render the entire project to a .wav file. Then you'll have to find a way to make a DPP file. This is where I can't give any suggestions. I use Wavelab for my mastering software and it will create the DPP stuff automatically and burn an Audio CD for me. I can then send that Audio CD off to a duplicator or replicator (I can't remember which is which); Kunaki.com is my choice. Hopefully someone will chime in on what to do with the .wav file.

After you got your CD burned, take it to the living room, listen there. Take it to the car, listen there. Take it everywhere else you can play a CD and listen to it. Burn some of the songs to an MP3 and listen on your phone and earbuds. Take notes on how it sounds and what is wrong, then start the whole process over again.

Yup, you'll have to do it multiple times if your listening room isn't treated properly.

The one nice thing about sending your mixes out to a real mastering engineer is that he can "remove" the home studio feel from a song. He can't fix my boxy vocals or poor guitar playing, but he can compensate for the poor mixing room. At least to a point.
 
As for posting a track. I'm fine with my mixes, I like how they sound. I'm not looking for help in that area. I am really looking to get suggestions and/or answers to my questions about my bounced tracks and the volume of those tracks moving forward. I have them rendered to a stereo track without effects on the stereo track. The peak levels range from about-12db to -10db. Question is, are these volume levels ok to move into a final phase (adding Master Limiter and EQ) or should these track volumes be different louder or maybe softer?
Don.....
 
As for posting a track. I'm fine with my mixes, I like how they sound. I'm not looking for help in that area. I am really looking to get suggestions and/or answers to my questions about my bounced tracks and the volume of those tracks moving forward. I have them rendered to a stereo track without effects on the stereo track. The peak levels range from about-12db to -10db. Question is, are these volume levels ok to move into a final phase (adding Master Limiter and EQ) or should these track volumes be different louder or maybe softer?
Don.....
I must be missing something here, but if you won't post a track for someone to actually evaluate, you'll simply have to take the answers posted, and [MENTION=23296]Massive Master[/MENTION] (and others I think) already answered this, unless I'm missing something. Your mixes sound Ok to you and there's sufficient headroom. Or, are you collecting all the answers and going to average the results or apply some kind of voting logic?
 
Keith. I think it would be impossible to average answers. However I did ask a question about my volume levels.
Don.....
 
Keith. I think it would be impossible to average answers. However I did ask a question about my volume levels.
Don.....

Relying solely on meters as the arbiter for whether the levels are good is a dangerous game. Relying on the numbers people see on their meters, and applying them to your meters is too. Do you know which meters those giving advice are using: are they talking about calibrated hardware meters or DAW peak meters or VST plug high end meters? I my experience, VST meters, for example, can promise they are measuring true peaks, but line them upo next to one another and boom, they peak at different levels. You may not be comparing like with like.

Posting a track, on the other hand, let us hear what you're achieving with levels, and we can say you could go up a bit , or let you know you're overcooking it somewhere.

As most mix engineers will tell you, meters are an aid to your ears. And we can't use OUR ears to help you unless we hear something.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for your kind response. I guess I don't understand how posting 1 track out of 13 can answer my question. I'm really questioning if volume levels in the -12 to -10db range are acceptable before the final processing. One of my songs has nothing but synths and vocals while others have traditional R&R instruments like guitars, drums keyboards, etc. Some have real drums while others are canned. I'm not sure which track I would post to get an answer to my question. I'm also not sure how I attach a file that may be 50 or 60 megs. Would it go in a zip file? I'll try to post something and see what happens. I'm pretty sure these tracks are not "crushed" as I kept volume levels very low when recording.
I do want to say that I appreciate your response and the kindness and respect you've shown. I'm in a world that I know very little about so I ask questions. Some folks have no patience for those who are not as expert as they are and come across differently than you have.
I'll do my best to pick a song and try to post it.
Thanks,
Don.....
 
Thanks for your kind response. I guess I don't understand how posting 1 track out of 13 can answer my question. I'm really questioning if volume levels in the -12 to -10db range are acceptable before the final processing. One of my songs has nothing but synths and vocals while others have traditional R&R instruments like guitars, drums keyboards, etc. Some have real drums while others are canned. I'm not sure which track I would post to get an answer to my question. I'm also not sure how I attach a file that may be 50 or 60 megs. Would it go in a zip file? I'll try to post something and see what happens. I'm pretty sure these tracks are not "crushed" as I kept volume levels very low when recording.
I do want to say that I appreciate your response and the kindness and respect you've shown. I'm in a world that I know very little about so I ask questions. Some folks have no patience for those who are not as expert as they are and come across differently than you have.
I'll do my best to pick a song and try to post it.
Thanks,
Don.....
Honestly, I'm confused, and maybe your question would have been better answered in a separate thread, since this one started about "software" and now we're talking about "volume levels" which is a little ambiguous.

Since we're talking about mastering here, I believe most of us are thinking about a single stereo track, un-mastered, non-lossy, would be what we're looking for, though an high bitrate MP3 that was not normalized when bounced could probably work at least to start. You can attach an MP3, or put your bounced WAV/AIFF in Dropbox and post a link, for instance.

If you are now asking about individual track levels, that's a recording/mixing techniques post, I'd think. (Or maybe you mean "track" in the sense of track 1 - 11 on the CD?)

But, maybe start a new thread instead of letting this thing fan out more.
 
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Thanks for your kind response. I guess I don't understand how posting 1 track out of 13 can answer my question. I'm really questioning if volume levels in the -12 to -10db range are acceptable before the final processing. One of my songs has nothing but synths and vocals while others have traditional R&R instruments like guitars, drums keyboards, etc. Some have real drums while others are canned. I'm not sure which track I would post to get an answer to my question. I'm also not sure how I attach a file that may be 50 or 60 megs. Would it go in a zip file? I'll try to post something and see what happens. I'm pretty sure these tracks are not "crushed" as I kept volume levels very low when recording.
I do want to say that I appreciate your response and the kindness and respect you've shown. I'm in a world that I know very little about so I ask questions. Some folks have no patience for those who are not as expert as they are and come across differently than you have.
I'll do my best to pick a song and try to post it.
Thanks,
Don.....

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for life.

That is what everyone is try to do here. Help you get all of your songs where you want them. One song will be an example to help you understand the process. This group is really here more to help and teach, rather than just give simple answers as recording, mixing, finalizing (to avoid the master term) is so subjective.

Not lecturing, just explain why people are asking for a post.
 
... I guess I don't understand how posting 1 track out of 13 can answer my question. I'm really questioning if volume levels in the -12 to -10db range are acceptable before the final processing. ...
P.S. A bit of what's getting folks perplexed is why you keep asking the same question when it's been answered already! Look at the dBFS on your master bus and if it's in that range, bounce and master! In that "final processing" stage all the tracks should be made to play back at a consistent loudness so they sound like they're of "a piece" if the person doing the mastering knows how to do that.
 
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