Mastering - In search of missing component

polkor

New member
Hello
I was just wondering about mastering process since iam a newbie and have started experimenting a bit. I have 2 questions regarding this matter
Firstly ,before mastering I keep negative db for all of the tracks. Final mix has also slightly negative db.
Mastering process brings level up significantly and i keep db negative.
Is it a common practice to bring master (final mix) track above 0db?Or should I move other tracks also up since there won’t be clippings now.
Secondly and sadly my mastering lacks warmth and so called “fat” sound? Before master vocals are warm and punchy but levels are low. After mastering levels are up but sharp
I use API 2500 and L2 for mastering. Is there any way or plugin to change this sharpness into warmth? Something from Waves or free plugin
Thanks a lot
 
Final mix should not go above 0db. I keep it about -0.3 seems to help when I convert to MP3.

Once you have your mix, your track levels shouldn't change. On the L2 I bring my out ceiling to -0.3, then set the threshold to where the total mix is just making the Atten meter bouncy. I like to keep the compression low. Once you have that set, then you listen to the mix and use an EQ on the master buss a adjust areas that you feel need adjusting.

If you find you are having to make huge adjustments, then go back and visit the source to get the mix better. My rule of thumb is, if huge EQ is needed on the master, need to look at the mix and the source tracks to fix there.

That is how I do it, but more experienced people on this board will add to this thread and help even more.
 
That level thing is mostly for certain types of music.

If you already have a compressed(smashed) mix you can dip your shine cloth in the tube bucket : ) Maybe the transformer modeling isn't that good on your plugs. for EQ, I use the Stillwell 1973 a lot
 
Final mix should not go above 0db. I keep it about -0.3 seems to help when I convert to MP3.

Once you have your mix, your track levels shouldn't change. On the L2 I bring my out ceiling to -0.3, then set the threshold to where the total mix is just making the Atten meter bouncy. I like to keep the compression low. Once you have that set, then you listen to the mix and use an EQ on the master buss a adjust areas that you feel need adjusting.

If you find you are having to make huge adjustments, then go back and visit the source to get the mix better. My rule of thumb is, if huge EQ is needed on the master, need to look at the mix and the source tracks to fix there.

That is how I do it, but more experienced people on this board will add to this thread and help even more.

cheers
 
Loudness really has more to do with EQ than limiting.

It's true sometimes an ME will use two or more limiters for various reasons. But the key is not what you use, but how yu use it.

Having said that, I would still personally uninstal waves L2 and forget about it. Try limiter no6 or even the free one from melda production. Both are cleaner than the L2.

Here's a good learning way to use a limiter. Put a volume plugin just before the limiter. Set the limiter threshold to -1 and output to -1db. Push the volume plugin until the tippy top of the peaks are being limited. Like 0.5db of gain reduction at the most. If that isn't loud enough, go back to the mix and figure out why. I.e There may be too much extreme low end, which takes up a lot of RMS headroom.

The L2 definitely destroys warmth and coverts it to edginess. It's a fantastic pile of junk imo

Don't worry about smashing your mix. Dynamic is the new loud ;)
 
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Dynamic is the new loud
I have to (and happily so) admit -- There's been a sudden and rather bold shift recently, at least from a large percentage of my clients, to "more dynamic."

I *assume* it's at least partially driven by all the streaming services suddenly adopting LUFS levels that are very reasonable. I hope it continues and transfers to everything else.

As I've always attested -- The "loudness war" has always been a pissing contest between artists and labels. The listener never asked for it and they'd likely be rather pissed if they knew how much better the product sounded like at "normal" levels. And these streaming services are sort of "force feeding" it. The listener is suddenly hearing how amazing "normal" dynamics sound like and at the same time, hearing how dull and lifeless the crushed stuff sounds by comparison.

It's actually making my life a nightmare at the moment -- But it's a pretty decent nightmare.
 
It's actually making my life a nightmare at the moment -- But it's a pretty decent nightmare.

lol yeah, it's the kind of nightmare I wouldn't want to wake up from. The reality of the past 15 years has mostly sucked. It's good to hear the loudness wars might be slowly coming to a close.
 
Loudness really has more to do with EQ than limiting.

It's true sometimes an ME will use two or more limiters for various reasons. But the key is not what you use, but how yu use it.

Having said that, I would still personally uninstal waves L2 and forget about it. Try limiter no6 or even the free one from melda production. Both are cleaner than the L2.

Here's a good learning way to use a limiter. Put a volume plugin just before the limiter. Set the limiter threshold to -1 and output to -1db. Push the volume plugin until the tippy top of the peaks are being limited. Like 0.5db of gain reduction at the most. If that isn't loud enough, go back to the mix and figure out why. I.e There may be too much extreme low end, which takes up a lot of RMS headroom.

The L2 definitely destroys warmth and coverts it to edginess. It's a fantastic pile of junk imo

Don't worry about smashing your mix. Dynamic is the new loud ;)
will definitely try that no.6 limiter, looks interesting, hope its not in Cyrillic :D
 
I've read a lot of complaints about the L2 limiter. I've not used it, but I do use the L3 Maximizer A LOT. It's an excellent limiter, and the multiband multimaximizer offers granular priority and gain control for certain frequency ranges. It's a nice mastering shortcut.
 
I really like the l3 too, the ultramaximizer version. It's fairly transparent and basically one knob so it's hard to screw up. I started just aiming for -16 lufs since I read about spotify's change, it barely has to do anything to get to that level.
 
TBH...most of the complaints I've seen are about the L3...and the opposite for the L2.

I think there's a lot more to the end result than just the choice of plugin...and more to do with how hard it's used and what's happened to the mix before it's used. :)
 
I *assume* it's at least partially driven by all the streaming services suddenly adopting LUFS levels that are very reasonable. I hope it continues and transfers to everything else.

In the EU, they've imposed limits on how loud personal music players can go. 85dB I think. People are just working around it with firmware hacks and such. :rolleyes:

But yeah - aside from physically limiting volume on devices, the imposed level limits within spotify, youtube, apple music etc are a good thing overall I think. Takes some of the silliness out of the loudness piece.
 
I think there's a lot more to the end result than just the choice of plugin...and more to do with how hard it's used and what's happened to the mix before it's used. :)

Very true, I was even guilty expecting the L3 to work magic when I first started using it. Now that I understand what it can/can't do, it's the perfect tool for my needs.
 
I really like the l3 too, the ultramaximizer version. It's fairly transparent and basically one knob so it's hard to screw up. I started just aiming for -16 lufs since I read about spotify's change, it barely has to do anything to get to that level.

Clarity goes out the window pretty quick though with the "loud and proud' preset once you reach a certain point. My ears have gotten accustom to listening for that squashed 'effect', so I know that's the furthest I can push and then back off from there.

I also use the L3 at the track level when I need something pushed a bit. It's a latency pig though, so usually not while tracking and I usually freeze the track after applying the L3.
 
With the Wave L series I would just jump to the L3-16 right from the start. I think you get the entire L series if you buy the L3-16 and I noticed a big difference right away over the other L's. It can be complicated so you need to be careful or you can screw things up real quick but I think that holds true for most mutliband compressors. And the more bands the more flexibility but the greater the chances are you can screw things up. I look for a preset that gets me close and tweak from there. In a perfect world if your mixes were top notch in every way the mastering process should be easy. The world is not perfect and that is why top notch mastering houses get really big bucks for doing what they do. Some changes are almost surgical to get them right. Also the definition of what is right is subjective.
 
I used the L1 back in the day and now use the L3 and never had a problem with the sound being harsh or hyped if the source was mixed and gain staged properly. I found especially that waves limiters are very good at the leveling part of the equation so that if your mix is at all lopsided frequency-wise their limiters will make it worse. IMHO most digital limiters due this to some extent and it did take some time and learning to get a feel of what the limiter will do to frequency balance. Remember its still compressing and adding gain so a lot of quiet stuff is going to get louder and louder stuff will get flatter so you have to plan ahead and learn the response of whatever u are using
 
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