Limiter problem

davecg321

New member
I have a track I've mixed and am happy with. When I push my limiter at the mastering stage to a level that is 'loud' enough, I consequently get way too many dbs in gain reduction on the louder parts of the track (9db in g.r)

If I back off the limiter the rest of my track then becomes much too quiet.

The music is fairly sparse, dynamic, acousticy.


Any thoughts. ..?
 
Hey,
This is a pretty involved question but, I suppose, you're looking at peak vs RMS.
Google that, along with perceived volume.

What you're finding out with your limiter is that you can cut of all the peaks above X giving you room to turn everything up, but the sound quality will be massively compromised.
You can effectively do the same thing at earlier stages in the mix and by various means in order to end up with a mix (not master) that has much greater perceived volume and, therefore, doesn't need to be tortured at the last stage.
It can also sound much more natural and be way less destructive doing it that way.

Look into dynamics during performance, volume automation, individual track and bus compression with special attention to attack where peaks are concerned.

If that's too vague and not really helpful, maybe post up an mp3?
 
If you can't get the desired loudness with the limiter, the mix is far too dynamic to get that loud.

So you have two choices:
1. Accept that the final result will not be as loud as you want it to be.

2. Use compressors and/or limiters on individual instruments and busses to tame the dynamic, so the mastering limiter doesn't have to work on hard.
 
I have a track I've mixed and am happy with. When I push my limiter at the mastering stage to a level that is 'loud' enough, I consequently get way too many dbs in gain reduction on the louder parts of the track (9db in g.r)

If I back off the limiter the rest of my track then becomes much too quiet.

The music is fairly sparse, dynamic, acousticy.

Any thoughts. ..?
Hey do.. you hang out and read some of the stuff around here?
:rolleyes:
Check this out.. About three days ago, different title but goes to exactally your point. :)
https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/mastering/automating-threshold-392125/
 
If you can't get the desired loudness with the limiter, the mix is far too dynamic to get that loud.

So you have two choices:
1. Accept that the final result will not be as loud as you want it to be.

2. Use compressors and/or limiters on individual instruments and busses to tame the dynamic, so the mastering limiter doesn't have to work on hard.
Just to be for sure-for sure/clear' for the new ones :>) I'll add
3. Use mixing -levels- on individual instruments and buses to tame.. etc. etc :D

I always hate to leave an interpretation that doesn't put mixing levels as primary' (before slapping on the compressors' :)
 
What is "loud enough" and what is "too many dBs in gain reduction"? When it's "loud enough" and there are "too many dBs of gain reduction", how does it sound?
Exactally. However likely (guessing :>) ran smack into 'how/why compressors, limiters, usually- aren't great 'auto-mixers'.
 
Just to be for sure-for sure/clear' for the new ones :>) I'll add
3. Use mixing -levels- on individual instruments and buses to tame.. etc. etc :D

I always hate to leave an interpretation that doesn't put mixing levels as primary' (before slapping on the compressors' :)
That is true. I was going down the specific rabbit hole of his 'sparse mix', which is usually a transient problem. Assuming it's even a problem, if he is trying to get a meter to read a specific RMS level and it's something like a solo acoustic guitar, he is on a fools errand.
 
That is true. I was going down the specific rabbit hole of his 'sparse mix', which is usually a transient problem. Assuming it's even a problem, if he is trying to get a meter to read a specific RMS level and it's something like a solo acoustic guitar, he is on a fools errand.

Thanks. Yeah 'compression on things that sort of more 'normally sound good compressed, or we're used to being part of the sound, is a bit of a different - can be 'easier' might be a way to put it, vs trying to get some of these other things 'loud with out it going south on you.
 
Ok this is pretty much what I assumed might be the case (that my mix is too dynamic)

I'm really happy with the quiet parts but as I've said the limiter then begins to work way too hard on the louder bits.

Even though I get 7-8dbs of gain reduction at the loudest parts I can't really hear any degradation of audio (distortion, nastiness) I'm merely basing my concern on the amount of g.r, as that is generally considered too much. Especially for folky/rock kinda stuff.

I'm going to try and tame the dynamics within my mix for an overall more consistent level.
 
If you have very quiet sections, like an acoustic ballad type intro to a heavier rock song, I'd get the volume balancing done with automation before going to compressors and limiters.

Get it roughly where you want it and use your plugins for more delicate, precise work.


If you don't hear nastiness/distortion etc, don't worry about the numbers. ;)
I mean don't go pushing it to the limit for the sake of it but if your sole concern is a number on a meter and everything else is just dandy, ignore the number.
 
I have a track I've mixed and am happy with. When I push my limiter at the mastering stage to a level that is 'loud' enough, I consequently get way too many dbs in gain reduction on the louder parts of the track (9db in g.r)

If I back off the limiter the rest of my track then becomes much too quiet.

The music is fairly sparse, dynamic, acousticy.


Any thoughts. ..?


instead of limiting via plugin. you can do what the mastering engineers did with all of the commercial mixes:

go in to another converter and clip it ever so slightly.

of course they used a transformer input ADC so you don't hear the clip artefacts on the commercial CD.

I decided to reveal their little dirty secrete to their "transparent limiter" --he he he

A message to every DIYer here :That is why your race to 0dbfs is pointless
 
Not arguing your point, but clipping converters is hardly a secret...

Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of "secret weapons" out there that just aren't true (maul-the-band compression for one). But we've been testing the limits of converters since -- converters.

Still waiting for everyone to just stop with the whole "volume" thing anyway...
 
Not arguing your point, but clipping converters is hardly a secret...

Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of "secret weapons" out there that just aren't true (maul-the-band compression for one). But we've been testing the limits of converters since -- converters.

Still waiting for everyone to just stop with the whole "volume" thing anyway...
As if + or - a dB or two is going to sink or float the success of a song.
 
Not arguing your point, but clipping converters is hardly a secret...

Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of "secret weapons" out there that just aren't true (maul-the-band compression for one). But we've been testing the limits of converters since -- converters.

Still waiting for everyone to just stop with the whole "volume" thing anyway...

me too. I think they ruined the cd format by doing it. I'm just getting tired of explaining to talented mixers in my community why their mixes are not as loud as X recording that was done decades ago.

and stopping the nonsense of racing to 0dbfs.
there has been too many engineers I have to get them out of that thought for their own good.

so I decided to speak out about it. Because I have not really found anyone saying anything about it.
 
Word. To the peeps. In the house. Y'all.

I remember when it (digital) just started getting really decent and we were all excited about being able to make recordings with ridiculously wide dynamic range -- and then what happened?

I was naive about it 20 years ago -- Was being interviewed for some mag and it came up. I said something like "Well, I don't think we're in danger of all these bands wanting to ruin their recordings just to make them louder than the rest..." :facepalm:
 
This means happy or not your mix isn't. One thing you can do is you can identify which track is spiking and put a compressor or limiter on that track so it's peaks are tamed before hitting the master output.
 
I meant more drastic than clipping waves, when the actual speakers start popping and crackling from digital red led's coming on.
lol
 
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