Itersample peeks causing low volume

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davecg321

New member
Hi all.

Basically I have a mix I'm happy with. When I start mastering however I can only get to a certain volume before my inter sample metre starts picking up peeks (playing them back through CD, mobile, mp4 player as distortion)

These obviously happen on the louder parts of my mix. I.e a louder part of a vocal plosive or hard hitting piano.

My question is.. should I compress more on my tracks at theach mixing stage to squish these peaks more? Thus being able to get that overall level sitting higher...?

The style of music is very dynamic. The particular track being just vocal and yamaha ivory piano vst. I've compared it to other tracks akin to this and still can't get the overall level to match (without causing ISP's)

Any tips/advice would be massively appreciated

Tah
 
Note: before I hit any peaks I am getting no gain reduction on my limiter. This is with the input gain adding about 6-7 dB
 
Are you using a mastering-specific limiter or a generic limiter? While you "can" master with a generic limiter it's a lot easier with one meant for that job.

If you really need more volume then something needs more limiting. Whether that's the tracks or the mix is hard to say. When limiting the mix I listen for a ducking effect that occurs when one element of the mix triggers gain reduction that is audible on other elements of the mix. One classic example is almost every amateur mix with heavy kick drum. The limiter reduces gain audibly on the whole mix with every kick hit.
 
Either your limiter has some makeup gain, there is something after the limiter adding level, or you aren't using a mastering limiter.

Obviously I can't say this will work for you, but I always try to reel in the dynamics at the track or group level. That way, the mastering compression and limiting don't have to work so hard. That keeps the mic from pumping.
 
Should I pull down the output of the limiter a couple of dB? Why down this when we can just reduce the input gain by 2 dB. .?
 
Knowing what little I know about your situation, my guess is that your dynamic range is too high and you are asking the limiter to do more than it can without sounding bad. Your best bet would be to compress or limit the individual tracks a little more, so the limiter doesn't have to do so much.
 
davecg321 said:
...playing them back through CD, mobile, mp4 player as distortion

These obviously happen on the louder parts of my mix. I.e a louder part of a vocal plosive or hard hitting piano.

My question is.. should I compress more on my tracks at theach mixing stage to squish these peaks more? Thus being able to get that overall level sitting higher...?

The style of music is very dynamic. ...
Click to expand...
1) 'Intersample peaks' - I wouldn't be so concerned about the last half dB or so. Reducing the final limiter level (-.5?) should cover those.

2) Piano and voice -how loud does that to need be?

If it's going to be 'dynamic', it can't be (real) loud.

Clipping piano/voice, yeah it's very likely by the nature of it-- to sound 'different/odd'.. distorted in some ways.
Hard limiting/clippers is wave form distorting ('altering at a quite fine level of detail. Part of the problem is not only extremely fast attack, it typically comes with very fast release.

Limiting is going to generate its own sound traits for sure.
Compression- depending on on it's speed will have sets of different artifacts -different sounds. The slower the less it operates in and with waveform distortion. But has less control (of short duration changes.

Clip or fader automation can be the best of both exact control (right down to the fine 'peak control' level, or word, or phrase level' what ever) and potentially the most natural sounding leveling. But takes a bit more time.
Typically you might do a bit of all four perhaps. 'Clip automation - leveling before hitting even track compression, track (fader) automation, and/or final compression or limiting.
The thing is the more you do 'up front, the less the comps and limiters need to do.

Farview said:
Knowing what little I know about your situation, my guess is that your dynamic range is too high and you are asking the limiter to do more than it can without sounding bad. Your best bet would be to compress or limit the individual tracks a little more, so the limiter doesn't have to do so much.
Click to expand...
 
davecg321 said:
Farview - how many db from quietest to loudest would be too dynamic?
Click to expand...

What ever it takes to get the volume you want.

What is happening is the peaks are so far above the average that the limiter can't beat them back transparently. So you have to either compress/limit the individual tracks so that the limiter doesn't have to do so much, or give up on getting a loudness higher than the mastering limiter can get you without sounding bad.

The more dynamic something is, the lower the overall volume will be. I
 
Farview said:
Knowing what little I know about your situation, my guess is that your dynamic range is too high and you are asking the limiter to do more than it can without sounding bad. Your best bet would be to compress or limit the individual tracks a little more, so the limiter doesn't have to do so much.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure this is the case as I can raise the gain on the limiter a lot more during the quieter parts. This inevitably starts (ISP's) to clip when the louder parts of the song come in. The vocal is very dynamic and at the moment I have the compressor set at 2:1, Medium-High Threshold, with 4-6 GR.

Should I set the ratio higher to tame those peaks more?

Also, should I apply compression to the piano VST.

I'd like to upload samples of my work to share on here. What do you guys suggest for this particular forum?


tah
 
davecg321 said:
The vocal is very dynamic and at the moment I have the compressor set at 2:1, Medium-High Threshold, with 4-6 GR.
Click to expand...

I would consider that amount of compression on a "very dynamic" vocal to be practically nothing.

davecg321 said:
Should I set the ratio higher to tame those peaks more?
Click to expand...

Hard to say without hearing, but probably yes. Or even things out with clip gain (or take volume or whatever it's called in whatever DAW you're using).

davecg321 said:
Also, should I apply compression to the piano VST.
Click to expand...

Piano is trickier. You don't want it to sound unnatural. What you can get away with depends on the style, tempo etc. I might stick to limiting peaks.

davecg321 said:
I'd like to upload samples of my work to share on here. What do you guys suggest for this particular forum?
Click to expand...

Post an mp3. When you start a new thread or use the "Go Advanced" button when replying you can upload an mp3 through the Manage Attachments button.
 
Many Thanks. This has definitely cleared a few things up at least on a technical level. Just to note, I have my compressor on the master buss set to 2-3 GR, Slow attack, 2:1 ratio. Is this fairly standard for folk/Acoustic music. I want to keep the sound open/full/and not too squished.

When I get the chance I'll upload an unmastered version of my mix. Hopefully some of you on here will be able to hear/see if I need to tame those peaks more.

:)
 
davecg321 said:
Many Thanks. This has definitely cleared a few things up at least on a technical level. Just to note, I have my compressor on the master buss set to 2-3 GR, Slow attack, 2:1 ratio. Is this fairly standard for folk/Acoustic music. I want to keep the sound open/full/and not too squished.

When I get the chance I'll upload an unmastered version of my mix. Hopefully some of you on here will be able to hear/see if I need to tame those peaks more.

:)
Click to expand...
You'll still need to come to deal with the fact that while 'slow attack can sound real nice- and may indeed have it's place here, it may do very little to nothing to peaks. (depending.

Take a moment to think about the dynamic controls offered here, their various attack speeds, and what it is you are controlling, and hearing.

You mentioned 'plosives for example. Maybe that's a job for mixing- (i.e. automation..)
Things like that solved there (that way..) you're not backing youself into a corner' with compressor settings 'fixing stuff they don't even need to see.
 
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