How do you master LOUD with it distorting when you turn it up LOUD.

FoulPhil

FoulPhil

Well-known member
Yo, I noticed that I get some really nice and LOUD masters, but once you turn it up more than half way it just starts to break up, get distorted and crunchy. Is that just the way it is or is there some kind of EQing (or something) that can be done so that I can master it loud and it not get distorted as easily when I pump up the volume of my speakers? I'm talking about just regular old speakers for your computer, in your car etc. Some of the old music I listen too can be turned it up all the way and it sounds great. Although I don't think it was as loud to begin with.

With my stuff I only have the turn the speakers up half way to get the same volume without the distortion, but I would like to be able to really crank it up without it getting all crappy sounding. How do I improve on this? Is it a mixing thing? I'm a leaving too much low end or high end in the mix? Anything else you can thing of? Suggestion welcome :D
 
FoulPhil said:
Some of the old music I listen too can be turned it up all the way and it sounds great. Although I don't think it was as loud to begin with.

With my stuff I only have the turn the speakers up half way to get the same volume without the distortion...
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I could be wrong but it sounds like you're simply overdriving your playback systems. The volume control merely controls the amount of gain applied. If the source has an overall higher average level then the system will produce (or attempt to produce) more watts for a given setting on the volume knob.

That said, it's possible your mixes have excess LF that you aren't hearing in your monitors. Maybe you can compare a commercial mix to your mix on a spectrograph. Or post an example.
 
I'm with BSG, it sounds like you are just over driving your co.putter speakers. The reason the old stuff sounds good all the way up is because it isn't as loud in the first place. Your speakers can only put out so much volume before they distort, once you cross that line, there is nothing you can do.
 
I think you guys might be right because I just listened to a new song from a new album that came out yesterday and it seems to be the same situation although it holds a little better. It also seems like most commercial release don't have the same low end as my stuff. It's less bass across the board. Should I be cutting a bit more bass off during mixing or does it really matter?

I don't really know if I should try to mimic what I hear from commercial release or not. It's like they EQ a lot of stuff out that I normally wouldn't.
 
FoulPhil said:
I think you guys might be right because I just listened to a new song from a new album that came out yesterday and it seems to be the same situation although it holds a little better. It also seems like most commercial release don't have the same low end as my stuff. It's less bass across the board. Should I be cutting a bit more bass off during mixing or does it really matter?

I don't really know if I should try to mimic what I hear from commercial release or not. It's like they EQ a lot of stuff out that I normally wouldn't.
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If your mixes consistently have more lows than commercial releases from various artists then I would suspect your monitoring system is off. How do commercial mixes sound on your studio monitors?
 
Sounds about the same. I guess it's just subtle difference, but they end up adding up. I'm not sure if I'm just confusing myself or what.
 
it's easier to turn up the volume knob,
then to turn off the distortion and lack of dynamics
 
You might just be able to get away with cutting low end that doesn't need to be there. You might just have a bunch of rumble and mud that is adding up.

Try using a high pass filter on vocals at about 100hz. Electric guitar at around 80hz, etc ... Only leave the subsonic stuff in the bass and kick.
 
Farview said:
You might just be able to get away with cutting low end that doesn't need to be there. You might just have a bunch of rumble and mud that is adding up.

Try using a high pass filter on vocals at about 100hz. Electric guitar at around 80hz, etc ... Only leave the subsonic stuff in the bass and kick.
Click to expand...

Missed my cue by 10 minutes. Removing all the "unnecessary" low end will help your woofers push more of the right low end. It's just a matter of looking under the right rocks to figure out what's unnecessary...
 
GONZO-X said:
it's easier to turn up the volume knob,
then to turn off the distortion and lack of dynamics
Click to expand...

It doesn't lack dynamics, it just get's to the maximum loudness faster.

Farview said:
You might just be able to get away with cutting low end that doesn't need to be there. You might just have a bunch of rumble and mud that is adding up.

Try using a high pass filter on vocals at about 100hz. Electric guitar at around 80hz, etc ... Only leave the subsonic stuff in the bass and kick.
Click to expand...

I do something similar to that already, but maybe need to do a bit more than I thought...
 
If the mix in your signature is any indication of what you are talking about, there doesn't seem to be too much low end. But it is pretty inconsistent. The low end changes with the note the bass is playing. If you compressed the snot out of it, you might be able to get the low end more consistent, which will let you place it in the mix differently, which might help.
 
I don't really know if I should try to mimic what I hear from commercial release or not. It's like they EQ a lot of stuff out that I normally wouldn't.
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I think you should make the mix(es) sound the best you can.

Don't get me wrong here -- I take mixes FAR out of their "happy place" all the time. The bands care. The labels care. The listeners couldn't give a hoot. And it still drives me mad every time a client says "Just a little louder..." when it's obviously killing it.
 
Massive Master said:
I think you should make the mix(es) sound the best you can.

Don't get me wrong here -- I take mixes FAR out of their "happy place" all the time. The bands care. The labels care. The listeners couldn't give a hoot. And it still drives me mad every time a client says "Just a little louder..." when it's obviously killing it.
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Yeah it's kind of hard to find that "happy place". I feel like I'm kind of close to it being pretty damn good for a home recording, but at the same time I'm not sure how to get it settled into that happy place. The reason why I'm unsure if I want to even try to mimic commercial music is because I HATE new music. It all sounds like hairy ball sacks to me, not that I know what that sounds like, but it's a pretty disturbing thing to think about... :p

I'm the band and I don't care if any labels care. It's just a fun hobby for me with a goal of improving my "skill". I basically just want to be able to record a song and it sound awesome when ever I feel like it. I don't have any delusions of "making it" or "hitting the big time" etc. BUT I still want it to sound as good as possible LOL... :thumbs up:
 
FoulPhil said:
Yeah it's kind of hard to find that "happy place". I feel like I'm kind of close to it being pretty damn good for a home recording, but at the same time I'm not sure how to get it settled into that happy place. The reason why I'm unsure if I want to even try to mimic commercial music is because I HATE new music. It all sounds like hairy ball sacks to me, not that I know what that sounds like, but it's a pretty disturbing thing to think about... :p
:
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Well don't try to copy NEW music's sound! I agree - 1/2 the time I hear 'here's a new song by _____' on the radio my first thoughts are that the sound is crap, then the song is crappily written, too.
 
FoulPhil said:
Yo, I noticed that I get some really nice and LOUD masters, but once you turn it up more than half way it just starts to break up, get distorted and crunchy. Is that just the way it is or is there some kind of EQing (or something) that can be done so that I can master it loud and it not get distorted as easily when I pump up the volume of my speakers? I'm talking about just regular old speakers for your computer, in your car etc. Some of the old music I listen too can be turned it up all the way and it sounds great. Although I don't think it was as loud to begin with.

With my stuff I only have the turn the speakers up half way to get the same volume without the distortion, but I would like to be able to really crank it up without it getting all crappy sounding. How do I improve on this? Is it a mixing thing? I'm a leaving too much low end or high end in the mix? Anything else you can thing of? Suggestion welcome :D
Click to expand...

97% of getting a song loud and clean is about getting the frequency balance on the mix right before attempting to add level. Full range monitors, a decent room and experience help with this.

It's mainly about frequency balance and how you go about gain staging, .. especially getting stuff loud and clean while retaining a sense of dynamics.. Learning to master is a craft just like mixing or playing an instrument that you have to put a lot of hours into before you start to feel confident about it and can produce good results, so it's not something that someone can say "Do this" and it's that easy, because it's not.
What I'm saying is there is no easy answer to your question.

Another level of difficulty in learning to master your own mixes is that you are using the same room/speakers you mixed with to master with, so you are faced with the same acoustic and sonic anomalies you had while making the mixing decisions. It can be done but there are very few records out there where it was done successfully. gl
 
Instead of taking 'new' music as a reference - use music in a similar style or with a similar arrangement to your tracks as a reference if you feel you need it.

The music on the radio isn't the only new music.
 
Instead of taking 'new' music as a reference - use music in a similar style or with a similar arrangement to your tracks as a reference if you feel you need it.

The music on the radio isn't the only new music.
 
Yeah I don't really have a formula. I just go by what sounds good to me. Comparing it to other music usually just fcks it up for me LOL
 
It is probably a combination of your playback system and bass- both suggestions probably right.
Modern, well-produced- overly compressed masters have a proximity effect-style bass that simulates a full, rich low end but is not nearly as bass heavy as what naturally occurs or what sounds best when you first start mixing. The compression helps to bring the spectrum closer to balanced but the bass 'appears' to be louder than it is. So, if mixing even at the same output levels- there is a chance your mixes would distort earlier from the extra bass info.
Second- there are usually two main amp stages in lower quality speakers and computer audio. A good speaker can handle a higher capacity than a lower quality speaker. A low quality, high watt amp will put out a lot of power, but not clean power. A high quality amp that is also high wattage will drive the same speaker with a cleaner signal so it will gain stage better.
On a computer- you typically have a driver with a main out- which digitally (or even analog) mixes the devices- CD, wav, midi, mic in) and you have the actual volume setting that windows or your asio are driven from. You can try balancing the main out and the wav out levels to see if one distorts more than the other- if it is not a super high end card- this will have a point where it distorts less.
The speaker can be part of the cause if it is not rated well enough, or high enough, to handle a distorted signal from a low quality amp.
I hope that helps! :-)
 
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