Hoping for input re: my hard-limiting of a Vox Only file

**DaleVO** · 02-05-2012

Originally Posted by chuckduffy

I also noticed that your voice has a suprising amount of low frequency content - especially with the sub engaged on my monitors.

The other night when I was trying to pin-point the problem frequency, the sample in her voice that I was analyzing was hitting some 124 to 190Hz frequencies. That timbre in her voice surprised me too. She said in her initial post "... my voice is lower than many females...." She was right and it sounds good too. Easy listening.
Dale

**chuckduffy** · 02-05-2012

Yes - and the low frequency didn't appear to be out of balance - sounded natural to me. I do think about a HPF filter around 100 or so - when I soloed the sub at moderate volume there was some low end rumble and noise that I don't think does anything 'good' - but even at that she could leave it alone and it would work out.

**espritbonne** · 02-05-2012

Thanks for this info, Dale and Chuck! Fascinating! First time I've seen a mathematical analysis of my voice's low frequency. Growing up always being teased about how low it was, I hated my voice until I was offered a job in radio because of it. (If anybody had told me when I was a kid that I would one day make money with my voice, I would have assumed they were just making fun of me!) My daughter, who also does VO, has a low voice too: http://www.jordanstjean.com/JordanSt...ommercials.mp3

Chuck, so sorry about the blind test. I might not understand what a blind test means. But by putting its corresponding settings in the name of each file I was hoping I was giving enough details about each. But I guess even knowing where the knobs were set, it still comes down to simply listening for which settings were the best. And 'best' is subjective, I know. But Chuck, I truly have no "ear" at all. The read I though sounded best was the 4th read (so the one where the compression threshold was at 2:45, the Exp Thresh at about 10:30, and comp ration at 2 o'clock.) Here's a photo of the front of my model of 528e, to reference how those clock settings translate: www.debraleigh.com/Symetrix_Front.jpg

After reading your comment about the second one seeming to have a better "balance between dampening sibilance and losing high frequency content" I went back and forth between that 2nd one and the 4th a few times, and could then see what you mean. The 4th has pretty strong sibilance, doesn't it? And the 2nd one sounds better than I thought it did last night. Some of the tweaking I was trying last night was creating what I think of as a heavily gated sound, very artificial sounding, and I originally thought I heard that in the 2nd one. My 'ear' is such a joke.

And, yeah, I did think compression somehow helped diminish room noise, or hide it. While recording the first file ("NoCompression_NoEQ_DeEssFreq3Thresh9-15.wav") I could hear room ambiance, and when I did the hardlimiting while converting that file to an mp3, I thought I heard a big boost in that 'noise', but just now, listening to both the .wav and .mp3, it seems like I don't hear it. Maybe I just had my headphones too loud during editing? Sigh. I take a step or two forward, then several steps backwards it seems. Chuck, what do you think of that first file, where I didn't even have the compression on? If you were me, would you actually go with those settings? Sorry to have used up so much of your time already, and now to ask for even more.

Hahaha! "I don't believe people listen to audio books with sub-woofers". Thank goodness!

But my editing software DOES have a High Pass Filter. Its description says the HPF is used "to pass high frequencies and remove low frequencies. You must specify a cutoff point in order to determine a starting point at which the frequencies will be passed or rejected" On the HPF screen I don't see fields for both a "cutoff" and "starting" point. Do you? Here's what the HPF screen looks like. I'm not sure in which field I should insert 100? http://www.debraleigh.com/HighPassFi...ingsScreen.jpg

Thanks again for all your help, and I promise to leave you guys alone after this. (I'll start recording tomorrow, so I'll be too busy to bug you!)

**rayc** · 02-06-2012

You have more than a good voice & this is a great discussion however I have to throw in the elephant in the room: if your ear isn't good you really have no chance of "mastering" a recording well. You've every chance of recording well & treating sib effectively as it can been easily heard & "seen". The audioalchemy of "mastering" really requires excellent ears and corresponding experience matched with high level skills.
My ears aren't good, besides having tinitus that masks some frequencies I just can't hear some "things" people talk about.
I bit the bullet recently & sent a song away for mastering. The results were so obvious & effective taht I had 13 songs done over 6 months.
I think you quite capable of recording your voice & treating you recordings to the equiv. of a finished mix. You've also demonstrated a willingness, indeed passion, to learn - something that is sometimes missing on these forums. It's the next step that's really difficult.
Oh, I'm amazed that audio books are a 195!!!
(Conversion/compression to that level would knock off quite a bit of bottom end). That's really in artifact land due to conversion & compression. I love audio books & have often wondered why the audio wasn't as stellar as the cassette/CD/DVD could carry.
I just had a listen to the hardlimited download in the 1st post. It does sound a little crushed and the sib is there/noticeable but not offensive. I had a look at the effects of conversion. The audio takes a steep dive at about 120 so there's almost nothing in terms of sub in the MP3: it goes from about -46 at 140 steeply down to -65 at 80 & slowly ramps down to -75 at 0. On the other end there's quite a nasty spike between 18k & 20k going from -125 up to -100 which MAY contribute to the artifact sounds. I know this may seem over the top but not all MP3 converters are the same or have the same result. I did some research into this a couple of years ago. I might have posted something about that on the forums somewhere or other.
Great voice, good & improving recordings, learning all the time & generous in your thanks: you're a welcome presence in HR!

**espritbonne** · 02-06-2012

Oh, Ray. As much as it breaks my heart to read the words, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to clearly define this huge, gray pachyderm I've been bumping into repeatedly here these past few days. This has been a bit like someone with palsy wanting to become a brain surgeon, hasn't it? No amount of education or 'want to' is going to make up for the physical limitations. I also have tinnitus, but I never even thought of that as being contributing factor. Duh.

And yeah, just not hearing 'some things' sums up my experiences over the years when standing in a studio with someone who's sharing audio in which they'd like for me to hear different nuances... and I'm wondering whether they're just joking or whether they're hallucinating.

Although I've know for years I don't have a good ear, I thought I could possibly find the proper settings and process for mastering my audio without much trouble, since it's VO only - and since it's the same voice, same mic, same studio every day. This would have saved me an incredible amount of time, in addition to money. But after hanging out here with you guys for a few days, I'm realizing even "voice only" audio is way more intricate than I had imagined.

Thanks for your encouraging words about my recordings improvement and my voice also, Ray. Much, much appreciated.

Well, although it's clear I'm not destined to perform audio brain surgery on my voice tracks, I sure am glad I googled my questions a few days ago and discovered homerecording.com. This has been a very cool experience, meeting such terrific people willing to share their time and expertise. You guys have been so wonderful to work with! Thanks again!

**rayc** · 02-06-2012

espitibonne,
Don't get me wrong, with some guidance and info from engineers you've worked with you probably can set up a generic faux mastering process & do the best you can that may meet your employers' requirements. You just won't be able to deal with the nuances that are required for true mastering.
Naked voice is the most difcult thing to work with in recording & mixing - it's a very cpmplex, rich instrument that is VERY unforgiving of stuffing around.
I think you should def. follow through on what you've started as you've made remarkable progress and every step reteaches you to listen.
You ought to consider talking to a mastering engineer or two & investigating whether they can help you put together generic settings for your voice and gear that will allow you to "master". Use the ME's ears & experience based around your voice and gear to create the best one stop suits all with minimal tweaking, (you hear well enough to do some tweaking - you've demonstrated that by your self reflection & analysis), "mastering". It may be a worth while investment & you'll be able to work in house after that whilst developing your ear by comparison with your previous a current/future work.
PLEASE stay engaged in HR. I've learnt quite a bit by following your thread as well as by dipping into analysis of you file. Thanks!

**espritbonne** · 02-08-2012

Wow. Thanks, Ray. Can't tell you how much it means to me to learn that even a 6-year HR member and Audio Obi-Wan Kenobi such as yourself actually found this thread educational. Very cool. I've been amazed by the expertise folks have generously shared with me here, but figured maybe I was the only one so enthralled by it - being so green on the tech side of things. So glad to hear it's been enjoyable/educational for you guys, too!.

You really encouraged me with the recommendation to follow through and consult with an ME. So I asked a VO legend here in town for input regarding the best go-to-guy in LA for this sort of thing, and just set up an appointment. Yay! When time allows, I'll come back and post here to let you guys know how things turned out for me. I love hanging out here, but I've felt like such a leech, just sucking up all the knowledge without any expertise to offer back to anyone. But because I haven't had a lot of experience with forums, I guess I hadn't stopped to think about other folks in my situation searching for this info here, and profiting from it too. So technically, I'm not 100% just a 'taker', I can count myself as sort of a 'giver' too.

**DaleVO** · 02-08-2012

Originally Posted by espritbonne

I love hanging out here, but I've felt like such a leech, just sucking up all the knowledge without any expertise to offer back to anyone.

Welcome to my club... I am Grand Poobah of the Royal Order of Leeches. You are welcome to pull up a chair, kick off your shoes, and stay with me for a while. The questions that you ask- help us all learn. One learns the best, when one teaches others. You do have expertise... I am just awaiting the ideal time to ask you.

IMHO: Keep asking your questions.... I am learning right along with you.
Dale (self-proclaimed Lifelong Learner)

**espritbonne** · 02-12-2012

Nuh-uh, Dale, you're one of the guys who was sharing terrific knowledge with me - no leech-like quality in that! But I do finally get it now, that my questions ultimately help other folks besides me. So I do feel better. Thanks. And yes, as time allows, I'd love to try and share any 'expertise' or tips I might have with you. (regarding voice-over hopefully, since that's the only info I can imagine I'd have worth sharing!)

For now, I can share this: the engineer I hired, George Whittam (thanks again to those of you here who suggested I just hire an expert for this!) worked miracles for me with my studio. I've since learned he has done the same for many other VO people throughout the Los Angeles area who have home VO studios. In fact he works solely with VO studios. He's brilliant, explains things to you as he goes, and is just a super nice person as well. He consults for folks around the world also, via phone or Source-Connect. So if you or any other VO people you know are ever in my situation, needing expert input for your VO studio, here's his website (below). Also, I discovered something very cool while noodling around on his site - when you have time, go to the "Resources" tab and click "Blogs" and check out the review Beau Weaver wrote up for the Tascam iM2 mic for IOS devices. Eureka! For when a client calls and needs something ASAP and you're nowhere near your studio. Thanks again Dale, and everybody, for all the time and expertise you gave me here.

Eldorado recording services (George Whittam's site): Record voice-over audio products at home or office quickly, easily, and profitably - Voiceover Studio Design Tech Support Tutorial