Home Mastering - What Do You Use?

[soundchaser59]

I do my tracking and mixing in Reaper now, converted from Sonar, but up until now I had been using Wavelab Essentials 5 to do some simple home mastering on my final stereo wav mix.

Well, now with Win 7 and a few other things updated, Wavelab will not run, it scans plugs and just crashes. Steinberg (burns my ears to say that word) wants me to pay more money to install the "update" that is actually an "upgrade" to Essentials 6. In typical brilliant fashion, they dont even give me a way to activate it or license it. So I said to myself, "F******K IT! Stei******rg can s***k my a*******ss!" (Pardon my Spanish!)

So, the next obvious question becomes what other apps can I choose from that will do my simple home mastering? Mostly I just use Ozone 4, with maybe a touch of Sonic Maximizer or a Limiter, nothing dazzling.

Audacity is free but it doesn't really do plugins or have the versatility to burn a redbook spec cd for dup'ing, etc. I might check Izotope to see if they have anything like that.

What do you people use for this? Is there some other open source app out there that will do what Wavelab does and will let me use Ozone and burn discs that can be copied, etc....? A lot of people are hyping CD Architect, any users there?

Be nice to have something inexpensive. I'm tired of being drained by the upgrade machines so many vendors burden us with. That's the main reason I left Sonar to join Reaper......I can afford it.

 

[guitar junkie]

Well you can always use REAPER to do most things and then get a roxio program to burn with... Setting fades and that sort of thing is easy enough and there are plenty of freeware plugins that could be used to master stuff at home... Though I am sure I am about to get my for saying this...

 

[Massive Master]

You do what the mix is asking you to do.

If you can't hear what it wants, you've got the wrong engineer. That goes for mixing also.

I'm not trying to discourage here, this is just reality. Ozone I would wholeheartedly not recommend. I've heard more decent mixes wrecked with Ozone presets than I care to remember.

Listen to it. What does it want? There's your answer.

 

[soundchaser59]

If you can't hear what it wants, you've got the wrong engineer. That goes for mixing also.

I'm the only engineer I'm gonna get, so I'll have to do. It's my basement, so the mix will do what I want, not make me do what it wants. You do this for a living, you have connections and gear and all day to play, I dont.

I'm not trying to discourage here, this is just reality. Ozone I would wholeheartedly not recommend. I've heard more decent mixes wrecked with Ozone presets than I care to remember.

Not trying to perhaps, but still your posts are quite often discouraging, especially this one. Gee Thanks!

I'm sorry, I respect your abiliity and your experience and all that, but so many of your posts have an undertone of "why aren't you using super pro gear and ultra pro methods and the super insider approach like me, so you can rise above what will obviously turn out to be an utterly trashed mix if you dont get what I'm saying." No offense, but that's how most of your input comes off sounding from where I sit.

You wholeheartedly do not recommend that which I already own and use. ok, I get it already. My mix will be totally wrecked by that which I already have and use and like. I heard you the first time. You successfully discouraged me a long time ago, John, but I have kept plugging along anyway with these tools and my junkyard basement dog methods because this is the best opportunity I've ever had to make some tunes at home.

This place is called "Home" recording for a reason, and I honestly do not understand why someone of your caliber and position in this industry continues to post "helpful information" like this on this particular forum. You are surrounded here by children of a lesser God who mostly have no hope of ever approaching anything close to what you recommend. I'm sorry I'm not up to your standards, most likely never will be, cant afford to be, etc.etc.etc. If I tell you this is my situation and my place in the world of music engineering, please don't come back with "get a better engineer and dont use software you already own that is going to wreck your mixes." If you dont know what to tell me to better utilize what I already have, which is what I asked for, then please don't discourage me any more.

 

[Waltz Mastering]

I would not take what John says as discouragement but as more of a challenge. In a sense he is just being brutally honest, and this can help in the long run. Besides, usually when someone presents me with anything stating that something can't or shouldn't be done, I find a way to do it anyway, just to prove them wrong; ) ...but that's just me.

Anyway, we all start somewhere...

The first record I ever cut for money was recorded in my bedroom (vocals in the bathroom) and went on to chart in Billboard and got tons of air play in major city's. Part of what made me want to succeed was someone telling me I couldn't.

Just wanted to throw that out there. I don't know what software to recommend. Good luck.

 

[miroslav]

... he is just being brutally honest...

I find many people have trouble swallowing that pill.
My father use to tell me, "Don't always be so honest and truthful with what you tell people...they don't all want to hear it."
Over the years I've come to understand why he said that...as I also tend to lean towards the "brutally honest" and "tough love" methodologies.

soundchaser

Don’t let the “Home” Recording part mislead you. While there are a lot of guys who are just “killing time” with their home recording and doing it as a passing hobby….there ARE many “home” recording guys doing very seriously...or at least trying to, since their focus is serious and they are willing to spend (aka "sacrifice") the $$$ that is needed.

My advice is...don't upgrade to Win7 if your main apps can't follow (or if you don't want to pay to upgrade them).
Heck...my current DAW (Samplitude) is still running on a W2K machine!!!!!!!
I've had an XP machine sitting on the sidelines for 2 years now...waiting for me to make the move...and I may(?) get around to it this year and NO I willl NOT be upgrading to Vista or Win7....because my audio apps are not asking for those upgrades.
And the only reason I will switch to XP is because I like XP and the "newer" computer will give me some more speed, though I'm not really in need of it.

AFA the "what's free and good to use in order to get good results" question...
...if you find out, let me know!!!
I've used the older versions of Waves L2 maximizer and their Linear EQ plugs for my home "mastering", but Waves stuff ain't cheap. I'm not sure what will happen when I switch to XP.
I wish Waves would sell JUST those two plugs separately, as that's all I really need for my "mastering" stage, just to lightly punch up the level, and balance out the EQ of the mix a little....but Waves likes to sell "bundles" at high prices.
I try to get the mix near-perfect during the editing/mixing phase, so I don't really need a slew of mastering plugs/stages to apply in the end.

 

[RAMI]

Soundchaser, "Home Mastering" can be done on REAPER or anything else you use as your DAW. Mastering is about using (or not using) whatever plugs you need to do the job. Any DAW will host them.

 

[Bristol Posse]

Soundchaser.

I got CD Architect free with Soundforge and I must say I dearly love them both for quick and dirty home masters to see how tracks stand up to it or to get levels up on mixes to share with friends etc.
I just use the limiter and EQ in soundforge

I'd take CD Architect over just about anything else I've seen for putting disks together but since it is a "pro" application you do pay for it if you buy separately.
Combined with a plextor drive (best error checking capabilities I've seen on a consumer drive but again you pay for it) you can put out good CDs pretty easilly and effectively

 

[Chibi Nappa]

It's my basement, so the mix will do what I want, not make me do what it wants.

There is a misunderstanding here. Even if you mixed the song yourself, there are still limitations and strengths within the mix itself. Doing "what the mix tells you" means you have to be aware of those strengths and limitations and master accordingly.

And it goes on down the line.

Even if you recorded the song yourself, you have to mix according to what the song tells you.

Even if you arranged the song yourself, you have to record according to what the song tells you.

Even if you wrote the song yourself, you have to do the arrangement according to what the song tells you.



Granted, there is much more freedom in the beginning of the process. When you sit down to arrange, the song could be handing you hundreds of possibilities. But by the time you hit mastering...the wiggle room is all but gone. The song is almost complete by then, and it will never be anything other than what it "wants" by that point.

 

[soundchaser59]

….there ARE many “home” recording guys doing very seriously...or at least trying to, since their focus is serious and they are willing to spend (aka "sacrifice") the $$$ that is needed.

My advice is...don't upgrade to Win7 if your main apps can't follow (or if you don't want to pay to upgrade them).

Thanks for the extra tips everybody.

I do take my music seriously, and I would be willing to spend the money.......if I had it. But this gear aint much good if I dont have a house to set up in. So I "sacrifice" my money paying the house and utilities and grocery bills. I got laid off in November 2008, lucky to be employed at all in a 2 yr temp position, a 35% pay cut is better than being unemployed but it is not a home recording soundchaser's ideal budget situation. (Just explaining, not assuming your comment was meant to be negative.)

That's one reason why I thought I'd ask about open source or inexpensive stuff.

I'm sorry my OP was not totally clear..... I have already upgraded to Win 7, and everything works fine except Steinberg. So that point is moot, no going back to XP for me. I am already liking the way Reaper uses all my stuff, and it is 1/4th to 1/3rd the cost of upgrading Sonar.

Another reason I ask about open source/cheap is I think it's slightly strange that there is a powerful open source DAW (Reaper) that (for my uses and needs) can compete with the best of the consumer lot (like Sonar) for a lot less money.......yet there is no corresponding open source quality for an app that makes redbook/ddp spec cd's with editing, meta tags, etc? Mildly surprising.....

Another reason is I have been burned too many times by crashing-locking-up-lose-all-of-my-work-in-the-blink-of-an-eye programs that have the name Steinberg on them. Wavelab crashed and burned on me, fortunately I did not lose any work this time. So I want to avoid upgrading anything Steinberg. It's cheaper than Sony up front, but the risk is too great later. For another $20-30 bucks I could get Sony and possibly avoid the risks.

At this point CD Architect looks like the best compromise most promising thing within my reach. But I like the idea of trying to see how far I get just using Reaper and Audacity. Maybe I'm up to the challenge.....

Thanks again, people.....good input.

 

[RAMI]

But I like the idea of trying to see how far I get just using Reaper and Audacity.

Sound, I can't see any reason why you'd consider AUDACITY if you have REAPER. What is your "mastering process", more or less, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[soundchaser59]

nothing dazzling, just my basement jury rigging....


mix raw with basic fx to taste in the DAW until it sounds good with everything averaging about -10 peak.

render to stereo wav.

slap a bit of Ozone on it, usually one of maybe 4 or 5 favorite presets, followed by a just-barely-noticeable touch of Sonic Maximizer.

Peak Master with ceiling set at -0.5 or -1.0, then up the gain until it hits the ceiling (red light on) about once every few seconds during the loudest passages of the tune.

burn and turn.


I suspect that part can be done well in Reaper. But it's the "Redbook/DDP Spec Disc" part that I'm wondering about, mainly because I dont know a lot about getting a cd dup'd in bulk. Like some others mentioned, I dont know why the DAW makers don't just include that stuff in their apps.

 

[miroslav]

Thanks for the extra tips everybody.

I do take my music seriously, and I would be willing to spend the money.......if I had it. But this gear aint much good if I dont have a house to set up in. So I "sacrifice" my money paying the house and utilities and grocery bills. I got laid off in November 2008, lucky to be employed at all in a 2 yr temp position, a 35% pay cut is better than being unemployed but it is not a home recording soundchaser's ideal budget situation. (Just explaining, not assuming your comment was meant to be negative.) .

It wasn't meant to be negative...just pointing out that even though we are all here on the Home Recording forums...we each have our own audio/music goals and budgets to apply to them.

Have you tried hitting the Steinberg forums and seeing what others are doing about Win 7 issues?
But you have to understand...when there is a new OS, the programmers have to re-code their apps for it, so it's nothing odd that they charge more for the upgrade during that initial OS changeover...then later on, that OS becomes part of the overall list of compatible OSs.
I get more irritated with charges for app upgrades that are just bug fixes left over from the previous version!!!
But...most do it...that's how they survive. If there was just one version that worked with everything....forever...
...they would go out of business.

I’m curious…what was your main motivation to upgrade to Win7…?
What were the main benefits gained?

 

[Massive Master]

It's true (just being brutally honest and hope people take it as a challenge). Any moron can come around here (and some do) that will say "Yeah, man - Use Waves plugins - They'll give you that totally professional sound because that's what all the pros use."

Or you can learn to listen - Which is what the pros actually do.

The gear doesn't matter so much. The "techniques" are simply based on what you hear dictating what you do, dictating what you use.

Believe it or not, I'm trying to make things easier...

I know people who have been at this for over a decade that are making really, really horrible recordings because they never learned to analyze what they were hearing. But they have 4,000 plugins that were suggested by a bunch of people on the forums.

On the flip side, I know people who have been at this for a year or so making really great recordings because they just listen and follow their ears.

so the mix will do what I want, not make me do what it wants

Keep thinking like that and you'll never learn.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

It's my basement, so the mix will do what I want, not make me do what it wants.

Not meaning to pile on, here Chaser, but you'd be wise to consider what everyone is telling you about this statement.

Even the best mixing and mastering engineers cannot take a mix where it does not want to go. The home recorders who commonly attempt to do this (and there are MANY, you're not alone) are usually the ones who write in here saying something like, "It takes me months to work on my mix and I never seem to be done with it." They write it off as lack of skillz or gear - which do contribute to the problem - but more often than not the lead cause (IME) is that they are trying to make it sound like something it just simply does not want to sound like.

At their best, mixing and mastering are both *collaborations* between the engineer and the material; it's making the best out of what you have to work with, not trying to make it something it can never really be.

As far as your software question; I have used the Sonic Foundry (now Sony) stuff for many years. I am a big fan of the Sound Forge/CD Architect combo. And while I also am not a very big fan of Ozone, the Sony bundle does now also come bundled with Ozone if one so wishes to use it.

I am unaware of any open source software that performs quality masteing functions under the classic definition of mastering. Perhaps that may be because just about the only people who actually perform those kind of services are pro MEs like Massive, Waltz and House.

Your average "home masterer" on a tight budget is really only looking at "mastering" as "fixing a mix", and not actually performing any actual mastering. For that, all one needs are their favorite signal processing plugs (EQs, compressors, reverbs). There's nothing "different" in the strictest sense about the EQ and compressor plugs used for mixing and those for mastering. Yes mastering engineers tend to be a bit more of gearheads than mixing engineers (not stereotyping, there are exceptions), and tend to gravitate more towards the "botique" ware, but that does not mean that the home masterer has to go out and buy a $3000 Manley EQ.

Use whatever plugs you have that you like the best or that you feel the most comfortable with, and practice with getting the best sounds your mix will allow when using them with Reaper. That'll get you going much better than spending a lot of time looking for a mythical "magical software mastering bullet" which doesn't really exist.

G.

 

[mixmkr]

I'm at a loss why you can't use your current version of Sonar... unless it's studio 2.0 or something. I'm still on 7pe, and I have no needs to upgrade at this point, because it is doing what I need it to do. They have some "mastering" plugs that come with their program, unlike Reaper, I believe. I have Reaper too, btw, but never use it. Got it about 3 years back, look at it occasionally and the free upgrades, but it pales to Sonar...at least to me. I don't see ever using it and honestly was a waste of $30 bucks back then.

I bought CD architect back in '96 or so.. ($250+)..and I got Soundforge "light" with it. I have yet to see a software program for burning CDs that has ever bettered it....not that I've tried others...but I understand Nero and all those others don't even have the features. I don't "master" in CD architect, but the current 5.2 edition lets you do all kinds of silly things, when at that stage you should just be burning CDs. I have no need for fx plugs when I'm burning a CD, and I'm not even sure why they're availabe.... oh well.

As far as John's comment,.. fix the mix... that starts to lead me to believe you don't need mastering, because you'll get your mix right. If you are happy with the mix, they blend with other songs, who says you need mastering? If you need the "other set of ears"... get another musician friend, etc. Whatever.

So.. I say, continue to use Ozone and Reaper. They seem to suit your needs. Just don't overuse Ozone. I think it is probably a great tool ( I don't have it though, but I've owned the original T-racks and have Harbal). They are OK, but I don't really use them either...except Harbal for my "live backing" tracks...but that's another [long] post.

Personally, I'd work on your OWN ears and get the trained. Not sure how to tell you how to do it, but if you can't hear what's missing in your mixes, you'll never know which direction to shoot for. You have FREE studio time, so keep reading and experimenting. Use those Ozone presets to see what they had in mind, and then tweak them to fit your needs. It's like the presets in Toontrack's drum program. They get you there, but play around and make them yours.

So... I'm not slamming internet mastering guys, in fact I just used one. But after all said and done, I learned what my mixes might have had missing. And maybe I'm convincing myself...but it was a compliment because I stripped off all my "junk" on my 2 buss, sent raw files for mastering, and my stuff was pretty d_mn close to the results I got back ( compared to my stuff WITH my "crap" on my main busses)... enough that I feel I could almost duplicate what was done and 99 out of 100 AVERAGE listeners would never tell the difference. And oddly enough, I used 2 of my own "mastered" mixes on the CD that was replicated.... two tunes that were mixed the worst, but somehow I prefered MY "mastered" mixes over what I paid for.
FUNNY thing... NO ONE knows except my wife, and "maybe" the mastering guy.
But, I was GLAD I used another person to master and probably will use them again some day. But, it was a good confirm to know my ears "maybe" don't suck. Get your ears that way too. Who cares if you use Blow Zone or whatever the "pros" like to call it? Who cares if you slam it with a distressor or have a fancy Cranesong piece of hardware.

Hey, better yet, I have a TC Finalizer...Wizard series I'll sell you for $400 (or anyone else either!). It'll smoke Ozone! ha!

But seriously, post stuff in the MP3 clinic. Critique others.. maybe you already do. That'll help a lot. Play your stuff for other people. LISTEN to what "joe blow" says about your mixes. Listen to what kids say about your mixes. Listen to what other people say that DON"T have a clue about music. They're the ones buying it right? So listen what they don't like..or better yet, keep doing what the DO like. If your girlfriend tells you that there are TOO MANY cymbals always bashing in your songs... hey..they might be because they got her attention. But learn to trust your ears FIRST. Ears are BY far the most important. You can be a crappy musician, but if you hear something GOOD, that you did, just record the "good" stuff and leave the "crappy" stuff for the recycle bin. (that's why there is "piano roll view" in Sonar..for people that can't play but can hear GOOD midi sequences!!) Ok...enough of the "tricks"

edit... I REALLY do have a TC finalizer for sale... pics in the "for sale" forum... probably dropped waaay back by now. ;-)

 

[NYMorningstar]

But learn to trust your ears FIRST. Ears are BY far the most important... ;-)

Amen to that and I'd like to add the room where you are creating your music in a close second. If you're not happy with your sound try creating it somewhere else. A good sounding room is half your battle. There is no cure for a bad sounding room and the more tracks the more obvious bad +bad + bad + bad + bad = BAD.

I use Wavelab 6 for mastering. I got it pretty cheap with a student discount.

 

[soundchaser59]

Keep thinking like that and you'll never learn.

That makes two of us......it says more about you than it does me when I ask you to keep your brutal honesty to yourself and you throw it back in my face anyway. I have my own brutal honesty, I dont want yours....

 

[soundchaser59]

Southside and mixmkr.....

Good points well taken, easily forgotten in the dreary dust of my basement. I have a tendency to fall back on what I think is "supposed to be" there on the vocal or on the guitar or whatever, not what it actually needs or doesn't need. I dont think I trash my mixes, I dont really overcook anything, most of my stuff is fairly raw and dry and back-to-the-basics despite what people think about Ozone presets. But I do still get the occasional comment from trained ears about the reverb on the voc sounding out of place, or the guitar is too loud....the reverb I can fix, the guitar will usually remain loud! I want to migrate away from Sonar, I dont like Roland taking over and I dont like being captive to that annual upgrade fee structure they want me tied to. Great program, bloated, enjoyed it, now recovering.....

NYM....... nothing I can do about my room, I am constrained to this basement for the next few years to come....but I do know exactly what you are getting at....I have home made treatment panels that made an audible difference, cant afford much more.

miroslav......went to W7 for better cpu utilization, it is lower now especially when I run Pianoteq, and the ability to use more than 2gb ram without installing any outside utilityware, smaller os footprint on the machine, easier to optimize for DAW use imo. Had issues with Steinberg years ago with Groove Agent and Win 2k and XP, it isn't just W7, looks to me like a pattern with their apps in general or the way I use them, I don't know. Feel like I don't need them any more.

I notice that Reaper renders just fine to a stero wav, which can then be opened in a Reaper template of my own design for whatever home "mastering" (I am using that word very loosely, by the way.....I understood a long time ago that real "mastering" is not really what I'm doing) I think I want to do and rendered to a new wav.



Does anybody know about this "DDP" protocol? Is that something I should be looking for in a cd burning app? Or is redbook good enough? Why is DDP becoming the talk of the neighbourhood? Just because it can be downloaded as a single image? I am pretty sure Wavelab doesn't do it, not sure about CD Architect. Maybe there is a open source app that will take a big bulk file and convert it to DDP? Supposedly dup houses like it because it is a "ready to burn" image file?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Does anybody know about this "DDP" protocol? Is that something I should be looking for in a cd burning app? Or is redbook good enough? Why is DDP becoming the talk of the neighbourhood? Just because it can be downloaded as a single image? I am pretty sure Wavelab doesn't do it, not sure about CD Architect. Maybe there is a open source app that will take a big bulk file and convert it to DDP? Supposedly dup houses like it because it is a "ready to burn" image file?

DDP means "Disc Description Protocol". As I understand it, it's simply a digital data protocol that includes some kind of checksumming or other data error protection scheme to ensure there are absolutely zero digital data errors in the transfer of the data from one medium to another.

This is a very nice protocol to use for creating the premaster and duplication master to ensure there are no digital data errors introduced in the duplication and distribution process. Ideally a mastering engineer that does use DDP would make two kinds of discs, a reference master which would be a standard audio CD for the client to listen to and check for acceptability of mastering, and a duplication premaster, which would be in DDP, that they'd send to the duplicator for production use.

But as far as the use of using DDP on the home level, you could send your work to the mastering guy on DDP, if they accept that format (make sure about that first), but frankly I'm not sure that it would be so advantageous to do that as to make it a hard recommendation. It's really to ensure accurate duplication *after* the mastering is finished more than anything else. IMHO, YMMV, HDMI 1080P, ETC.

G.