Getting Louder using plugins?

elenore19

Slowing becoming un-noob.
Hey all--
I'm surprised with my limited search that I didn't find too much on the basics of making an overall mix louder. I've always assumed that it's a mastering side of it.

I've heard compressors and limiters mentioned a lot with reference to this.
I'm wondering on certain suggested settings etc. Also which plugins should be used? I have the waves Mercury bundle along with the internet if there are better ones..

I know this isn't a do this and you get this kind of thing. There are always nuances to every different mix, I get all that. Just looking for a launching point with thresholds, attack speeds, etc.
Also I have no idea about limiters.

Thanks for the help. Sorry for the broad question. And of course, Mods, if this is in the wrong spot or there is already a thread that would give me the info I need, deleting/moving this right away with a pm notification to me would be very much appreciated.

Thanks, friends. You guys rock.
 
The primary tools are: at least one good mastering-specific limiter, eq and skill. And it's not just nuances, it's drastic differences in settings depending on many factors.
 
Okay. So no compressors. What kind of factors come into play?

Where do you boost the gain? Just the main on the daw? Or is there a way to boost signal with the Limiter?

So I'm thinking that the EQ is used to roll back on frequencies which peak more than others ones. Also could be used as the boost point, but I have in my head that boosting overall gain with an EQ isn't the best option. Could totally be wrong.

Also multiband limiters would probably be the best I'd assume. They're used to place more limiting on certain frequencies as opposed to others? So I'd probably put more limiting power (gain reduction?) in the frequencies that peak the hardest/most.

Any help/guidance would be awesome. Thanks for the reply.
 
The mastering limiter will boost the gain. If the dynamic range of the song is too much for the limiter to grab without sounding bad, compression before the limiter (actually, compression on the individual instruments that are killing the limiter) is in order.

No, a multi-band limiter is not better. Multi-band limiters and compressors are a tool for fixing certain things that can't be fixed otherwise. If you have access to the mix session, you should fix those problems there and not try to beat it into submission with a multi-band anything. The L1 or L2 will be just fine.

Limiting will accentuate certain frequencies in the mix, the EQ is put before the limiter to counter-act that. It is also there so that you can get all the songs on the album to sound like they belong together.

So, you bought a $7600 plugin bundle that you don't know how to use? I'm sure you wouldn't be asking for help with your cracked plugins...
 
Awesome, thanks for the input.
I'm looking to learn and really appreciate the help. Limiters are something I've never used. Are they commonly used on the single tracks too? Or mostly just for mastering? I have full access to the mix session so I can adjust things at any level, even re-record if necessary.

Plugin bundle was a dying gift from my grandpa if you must know. He didn't fully understand the amount that my passion was actually just my hobby and not my profession. Overkill? Absolutely.
And I have no idea how to use it, yes. Trying to learn though. Not really asking for help with these specific plugins necessarily. More so help with mastering in general. Just mentioned what tools I had available if anyone could use that info to help me more.
 
Don't feel bad, I'm just now getting beyond the stock DAW limiters. I don't really do the loudness thing, But I get something I don't like now and then
 
\Plugin bundle was a dying gift from my grandpa if you must know. He didn't fully understand the amount that my passion was actually just my hobby and not my profession. Overkill? Absolutely.

what happened to regular old, plain checks?
 
Mastering limiters are a little different from standard limiters. They are designed to lift the the volume.

They can be used on individual tracks, but with mastering limiters, the makeup gain will have to be dealt with, so that the track doesn't end up being full scale.
 
The biggest thing I learned on this forum that was not obvious, and that folks don't seem to share that much, is how much accumulation of low frequencies (often, un-hearable frequencies) can impact your ability to make your mix loud. I have found a visual analyzer like the PAZ (PAZ Analyzer Audio Analyzer Plugin | Waves) can really help you understand your mix better.

Across my guitars, vocals, and violin, there were many low frequencies that were piling up and impacting my overall gain on the master channel, and causing any limiter to squish the good stuff too much. Using a HPF on those tracks where I did not need low frequencies (where I set the HPF depends on the instrument, some at 100hz, others at 20hz). When I was able to reduce those, I found I could start increasing my gain more.

Of course, then the hard work began of all the other things said here, finding peaks across tracks, working track by track to balance the overall mix, and then at the very end using a limiter. After spending lots of time (especially on drums) getting the tracks to be more tamed, I was able to get some nice impact from the limiter with very little actual limiting/squishing.

The other trick I learned here was to bounce down the mix to a track, and examine the waveform to find those nasty peaks that impact the overall dynamic range. Found some good stuff that way too.
 
Ugh. Calling out shenanigans here.

But whatever...

Too bad Grandpa didn't spend the time teaching you how to use them. That would have been some real quality time...
 
The biggest thing I learned on this forum that was not obvious, and that folks don't seem to share that much, is how much accumulation of low frequencies (often, un-hearable frequencies) can impact your ability to make your mix loud. I have found a visual analyzer like the PAZ (PAZ Analyzer Audio Analyzer Plugin | Waves) can really help you understand your mix better.

Across my guitars, vocals, and violin, there were many low frequencies that were piling up and impacting my overall gain on the master channel, and causing any limiter to squish the good stuff too much. Using a HPF on those tracks where I did not need low frequencies (where I set the HPF depends on the instrument, some at 100hz, others at 20hz). When I was able to reduce those, I found I could start increasing my gain more.

Of course, then the hard work began of all the other things said here, finding peaks across tracks, working track by track to balance the overall mix, and then at the very end using a limiter. After spending lots of time (especially on drums) getting the tracks to be more tamed, I was able to get some nice impact from the limiter with very little actual limiting/squishing.

The other trick I learned here was to bounce down the mix to a track, and examine the waveform to find those nasty peaks that impact the overall dynamic range. Found some good stuff that way too.


That is actually kind of a 'assumed' thing for most experienced people. And also ties in to users monitoring chain. If you can't hear it, then you do not know it is there.

I will say that examining a waveform is a good thing. You can visually find things that are peaking. Adjusting before compression is always a good approach.

Curious 'Tim' what software you are using that you need to bounce down the mix before you can see that. Should be evident on the output channel of any DAW.
 
I am using Sonar Platinum. I can see the waveforms of my individual tracks, but to see the waveform of the final mix, I need to bounce the mix to a single track to examine the mixed waveform. Maybe I am using the terminology wrong.

I am confused by what you are saying though, when you say "evident on the output channel" I am not sure what you mean. All my tracks and buses end up on the final output channel, which of course goes out to my monitors -- but how would I see the waveform of that output channel without "saving" it (either bouncing to a track, or exporting to a file and importing the file to a track)?


That is actually kind of a 'assumed' thing for most experienced people. And also ties in to users monitoring chain. If you can't hear it, then you do not know it is there.

I will say that examining a waveform is a good thing. You can visually find things that are peaking. Adjusting before compression is always a good approach.

Curious 'Tim' what software you are using that you need to bounce down the mix before you can see that. Should be evident on the output channel of any DAW.
 
Assuming you have an EQ on your output, you can see the low freq buildup. I'm not sure Jimmy meant an actual waveform in the output channel, might have been 2 separate thoughts there.
 
Why does a $7600 plugin suite even exist?!

Seems like the sort of thing that would only create this exact sort of situation, where someone has way too much tool and don't know how to use it.
And anyone actually learning these plugins would pick them up a few at a time.

Is the idea that you're a professional studio that's adding a second room or something? Would it be useful then?
 
Why does a $7600 plugin suite even exist?!

Seems like the sort of thing that would only create this exact sort of situation, where someone has way too much tool and don't know how to use it.
And anyone actually learning these plugins would pick them up a few at a time.

Is the idea that you're a professional studio that's adding a second room or something? Would it be useful then?
If you buy them a few at a time, it would cost way more than buying the bundle.

The Mercury bundle is every single plugin that waves makes.
 
Ya'll can address this aspect, also : )

"I've always assumed that it's a mastering side of it".
 
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