Final Project Volume Matching

[Mickster]

How do you guys do your final volume settings for a single project / album consisting of several songs? I'm not asking about making them louder for the sake of volume. I'm asking about what method you use to decide that all the songs fit well together with their overall volume? I know my ears are the key...........but I still struggle. I can put 10 songs together on a project and can hear them on my monitors and think I've got them leveled right. Then after burning a CD and playing them on the car stereo and the living room stereo........I can hear that they don't match as well as they could. I'm never too far off so repeating the process eventually gets me there. But........do you guys use any tools to help you out? I have used a Tone Boosters loudness plug to tell me the volume and RMS levels......etc.......but that isn't the answer either. So.........how to you guys approach this? Any tips???

 

[Massive Master]

All I can tell you is to do those tweaks at various volumes. You'll probably find that some tunes seem louder than the rest at higher volumes, some may seem quieter. So many things go into relative playback volume... Density, dynamic range, instrumentation, spectral 'fingerprint' (lack of a better term - Need more coffee).

Although I'm always harping about "sheer volume being the easy part" and that it's more or less an afterthought, getting tracks of various densities and apparent volumes to seem similar is much more complex.

 

[Mickster]

All I can tell you is to do those tweaks at various volumes. You'll probably find that some tunes seem louder than the rest at higher volumes, some may seem quieter.

Ahhhhh..........thanks Massive. Never even thought about trying to listen back at different volumes!! Duh!!! Much appreciated.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Definitely try it at different playback levels, that's great advice.

I like to lay out all of the tracks in one Reaper project and then jump around the timeline almost randomly, listening to just short chunks of several different pieces. If you listen all the way through each song, it can sometimes be a bit misleading because you tend to lose perspective.

 

[Mr Clean]

I like to lay out all of the tracks in one Reaper project and then jump around the timeline almost randomly, listening to just short chunks of several different pieces. If you listen all the way through each song, it can sometimes be a bit misleading because you tend to lose perspective.

^^^^This for me too^^^^

 

[Mickster]

Yes.....I usually burn a quick CD-RW of the project and throw it on my CD player and skip around. Fast forward.......back and forth........no one song all the way through. But......seems I always made the mistake of keeping the volume steady. It's ironic because I never listen to a mix that way. I change the volume to hear how certain parts stand up through the changes. Lesson learned.

 

[witzendoz]

I find the final test with volumes is to play the whole CD through and not really listen to it, have it playing while doing something else. If there is a problem with volume it will get your attention. Sounds strange I know, but it works for me. I use the same thing when listening back to mixes, be talking to the band members while the mix is playing, if something is wrong it will jump out at you.

Alan.

 

[GONZO-X]

you get to the final choice of volume for each track by making decisions.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I set relative levels by jumping around. When doing that I'll compare quiet parts of one song to quiet parts of another, and loud parts to loud parts. Sometimes I'll even place markers so I can jump to particular places instantly. Then I'll play it through while doing something else to see if I find myself wanting to adjust the volume. Often I'll repeat the play-through with some background noise such as a fan.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Yep, compare similar sections if possible. I often try to keep the vocals and/or drums hitting around the same from track to track, and kind of let the rest of the mix fall where it may.

Also great advice to "half listen" from time to time. Even at mix time it's a good idea. My mix room is pretty much open to the rest of my house, so I often will go to the kitchen and wash dishes, or out on the front porch to smoke, or whatever else I have to do. When I stop having the urge to run back to tweak this or that, I know it's pretty close to done.

 

[jawbreaker]

you can use a digital SPL meter put on slow response for reference. keep the meter in the same location during track volume match. 3 DB is an audible difference in SLP.

 

[gecko zzed]

When trying to get consistent and cohesive levels, there are a couple of things I listen for:

* consistency of vocal levels across songs
* consistency of key instruments across songs (usually drums, but maybe piano or guitar at the start of songs)
* general consistency of overall level.

Of course, not all songs need to be the same level. Some will naturally want to be louder, and others softer.

The idea of 'half-listening', as others have mentioned, is really useful. Weirdness in level is very apparent when you listen from the next room while washing the dishes or something.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

you can use a digital SPL meter put on slow response for reference. keep the meter in the same location during track volume match. 3 DB is an audible difference in SLP.

An in-the-box RMS/dynamic range meter is the right tool for this job. A hardware SPL meter will be subject to room effects like resonances, standing waves etc. that can skew the results.

 

[Mickster]

I've tried RMS plugs and other RMS measuring tools and to be honest IMO........they don't really do much except to get you somewhere in the ballpark as far as "album" volume levels are concerned. I'm the OP for this question and someone answered that listening at different volumes is a key component in getting the levels right. I did have a habit of referencing "album" collections at one volume. Well.......I tried out that advice and holy moly.......it worked very well for me. So........be sure you use that method along with whatever else you use.

Also..........I did notice that much of the perception of how the volume of a song compares to others in an album has to do with how we perceive the volume of the main vocal............especially if its' the same main vocalist in all the songs. Try it for yourself. How well we hear the main vocal is crucial to our perception of loudness. As musicians / mixers / producers........we likely tend to listen to many elements in the song and could fixate on too many to help us decide on overall volume. The average person who will be listening to your product is almost always listening to your vocal primarily. So.........keep that in mind as your work on your album volume. Just my 2 cents.

 

[witzendoz]

Using metering alone is a waste of time, if you have a hard rock song followed by a ballad, the ballad will end up sounding louder than the rock song if you rely on metering alone.

By all means get some rough levels with metering, but you need to use your ears. I wish that people would turn off the bloody screen sometimes and actually listen.

Alan.

 

[jawbreaker]

An in-the-box RMS/dynamic range meter is the right tool for this job. A hardware SPL meter will be subject to room effects like resonances, standing waves etc. that can skew the results.

i'v never had a problem with the hand held unit set in the middle. but i'v also been doing this since the 70's so experience also helps.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Using metering alone is a waste of time, if you have a hard rock song followed by a ballad, the ballad will end up sounding louder than the rock song if you rely on metering alone.

By all means get some rough levels with metering, but you need to use your ears. I wish that people would turn off the bloody screen sometimes and actually listen.

Alan.

I do all the relative levels by ear, but if a client asks me to reach some arbitrary loudness target I'll use metering to confirm it. Obviously different songs will need different treatment and I may have to explain to the client that his ballad isn't going to get to -10dB RMS without sounding wrong in several ways.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

i'v never had a problem with the hand held unit set in the middle. but i'v also been doing this since the 70's so experience also helps.

I guess one uses whatever methods work, but I really only need metering to achieve some specific loudness, and an SPL meter can't do that since it's not referenced to 0dBFS. I suppose with calibrated playback you could sort of approximate that, but the room effects will skew the result. And software can measure a song in seconds rather than in real time.

 

[Mark EMP]

The best thing to do is to not change the volume level on your playback whilst you do the mastering project. Also try to do the whole thing in one sitting. You'll get a good feel for the album that way.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

The best thing to do is to not change the volume level on your playback whilst you do the mastering project. Also try to do the whole thing in one sitting. You'll get a good feel for the album that way.

I do the opposite of both. There are things you can only hear at high or low volumes, and if you don't rest your ears you can lose perspective. But it is good to have a reference playback SPL.