Calling all producers

stray411

New member
First of all, Lazi your PM box is full so I couldn't reply to your PM. I'm in the same boat as you with stockpiles of unused tracks collecting dust. Pisses me off something serious.

A lot of us are in the same boat I think. We make all these banging tracks, but have all sorts of trouble finding a decent MC to spit on 'em. Which gives me an idea.

I personally play the f*** out of my tracks for the first couple weeks after I make it. During that time I may write a song to it, I may not. If I don't I won't be able to write to the beat until it clears my head (takes about a year).

Since most of us can rap too, what about doing some trading? Trade 5 of my unused tracks for 5 of yours. New beats usually spur new songs, so I'm thinking it may be beneficial all the way around.

Keep in mind the majority of albums out there aren't produced by one person. To keep things interesting for my next project I want to use some other cats beats. Anyone else interested in this?

Stray
 
Shit I've been talkin bout for years.....check this post out from my website

The Problem with Unknown Producers
Well, welcome to the first Monthly Column. The topic is above so no need to repeat it. That’s right, I think there is a huge problem with these people. I come onto to the internet often to listen to music. (1) Beacause I think there is a lot of unknown talent out there (2) Because radio sux and plays the same 15 songs over and over – not to mention 20 minutes of commercial every hour and (3) I won’t pay $20 for a major artist’s record for 1 good song. This all leads me listening to hours of music and networking with different artists and producers. One thing that shocks me is how locked up these producers keep their music. In other words they will do just about anything to make sure their music isn’t ripped off. I’ve had discussions with people who put annoying sounds in their music intentionally so no-one could recreate it, which uiltimately ruins a hot instrumental anyway. One producer would only post sound clips of the original, and yet another told me no unsigned artist was worthy of representing his beats. Well, excuse fuckin me. While reading this you will probably be able to think of yourself doing these things or have come into one of these types in the past. I break them into three categories – The Dumb, The Dumber, and The Fuckin Idiot.

The Dumb

These people often make incredible instrumentals. They are real consistent with producing good quality commercial tracks. Most understand music and the business associated with it. Although it may be just general knowledge they get the concept of business pertaining to music. You will find they are tidous about making sure beats are copyrighted. In addition, they usually will offer the beat to the highest bidder or for a flat rate. They’ve got the music ability to make it big, but never will for a few reasons.

(1) They have tight instrumentals that have no vocals. There are literally 1000’s of great producers out there. What seperates the ones you know (commercially) are the artists that sing on their tracks. It’s a two way street. A good producer needs a good artist. However, “The Dumb” would rather let the music sit in cyberspace and wait for someone who has no vocal ability to come along and pay them a couple hundred bucks then to go out and find talented unsigned artists. Believe me there is plenty of talented artist’s out their dying to find a good producer.

(2) They lack the ability or drive to do anything with their music. A major obstacle holding them back. They want to make it big, but don’t understand that posting music for 20-100 or so people to listen to will not get them famous. Promoting music is all a numbers game. A ratio if you will. Listeners to buyers. For example, if I put my music in front of 1 million listeners chances are 200k will like it. Another 25k will like it enough to buy it. Whats your ratio with 20-100 listeners?

(3) No diversity. We see this all the time. They are great in one genre of music. I see this often especially in hip hop producers. Some will venture into R&B but that’s it. Again, The Dumb are extrodinary producers, but get stuck in one area. A good producer can make quality tracks in any genre. When you do this the artist pool to pick from increases massively. Music is trendy. What’s hot today may not be tomorrow. It is much better to be a producer than artist for many reasons. (maybe next months topic can be that), but the main reason is you don’t have to worry about trends. A producer has the ability to create tracks around what is in at the moment and can adapt at anytime.


The Dumber

These are my favorite people. They often possess a lot of good music ability but are never consistent. They will have 1 or 2 tight commercial ready instrumentals per 20. Most of them consider themselves an average producer. They realize there is better and worse out their, but are fueled drastically by their feedback. Dumber’s don’t take criticism well and usually become offensive if you point out the smallest flaw in a recording. You hear them talk all the time “the no it all” type personality. Do not try to argue with these people. When it comes to using an instrumental the answer is usually no. They also try to sell their beats and unlike “The Dumb” they will actually look for people to use their music. Because they know there are better out their, they will seek other avenues to get their music heard. You will find that they have a fancy website that’s all about how great they are. Dumber’s are really cocky and into themselves and although they know there are better producers out their, they will never admit it. A dumber will put out all sorts of cd’s, from beats to samples, they’ve got everything. Problem is they never sell enough to make a good amount of money from it. For example, if you sold an instrumental for $200 to one person then wouldn’t it make sense that on a CD with 20 songs you should at least gross 4K? None of them do. They spend and spend money but never make any. This is their biggest downfall. They do not understand business. They can probably tell you everything you wanna know about music and will even be well versed in music business terms and practices, but they don’t know BUSINESS and how one operates.
If this is you ^ you are stongly denying it and very pissed at me right now. You will be the first person to challenge me on everything I just wrote.


The Fuckin Idiot

The “No Fuckin Clue” people or the NFC’s. They possess no music ability what so ever and revert to sampling only. Ask them to do a song in the C key and the response will be “I don’t know keys”. WHAT!!!! This form of producer is really only found in hip hop where singing doesn’t matter. Rap music is obviously the easiest to produce. There are no concerns with vocalist, harmonies, bridges…etc. They make tracks consistently but really don’t undertsand the lingo. Simple terms like feedback, limiters, and clipping are heard but not understood. You can usually tell these people the minute their music starts playing. The term NFC is not directed towards beginners. I mean really no-one is when the first start out. Beginners usually take a full year of work to develop into a low intermediate. I am talking about people that continually make tracks and never take the step from beginner to intermediate. They learned one way to make “noise” (not music) and never progressed into other areas. They do a lot more talking then making music. When they do sit down to create tracks they really just want to put sounds together. Clarity and proper mix downs are never a part of their routine. When it comes to the music industry these people are the first to know all the gossip. Who’s fuckin who, who got arrested, who did what to who when and where. They would make a better journalist than a producer. In short, they are a glorified fan and a wanna-be producer.


That is my breakdown. Now of course there is the opposite. I call them the “Scholars”. They are talented in every aspect and although they are unknown they actively keep trying to break in. These people are strong producers as well as good business people. They almost always have a good personality and are often funny. You can spot one of these people from a mile away. They will help or mentor someone who has much less ability. Although they know there skills are way above others they are always willing to lend a helping hand. Ask to use one of their tracks and the answer is sure. They understand an important aspect of music – the listeners to buyers. For example, a scholar makes a beat entitled XYZ. This beat is phenomenal. The scholar knows that every artist that hears it will want it. Instead of selling this beat or hoarding it to himself, he will turn around and let everyone use it. He is massively increasing his audience and his chances of becoming known. Think about it. He posts it on the internet and 20 artists decide to write something to it. That has just yielded him based on the low end of listeners (20) a base of 400 listeners. I laugh sometimes as I go onto mp3.com. There are producers on there receiving 100-500 and more listens a day and are happy. With that size audience they could easily receive 10 times that a day if they were willing to open up.

The Womb
 
continued....


Lets talk about some issues because I know some of you are the “YEAH BUT” types. So I’ll do all the work for you.


YEAH BUT “I don’t want anyone stealing my beats and becoming famous off it”

First, they will not become famous off your beat unless they are already signed to a major record label. If that was the case the label would definitely pay you what it was worth. They would not release it without an agreement with you. The liability and credibility is just not worth risking to them.

Second, the absolute most that could happen is they score a recording deal with a demo that had your track on it. So what!!!! That actually improves your worth as you could all day advertise that.

Third, a artist will only steal it if you don’t offer it to them. If you offer it out and just ask for credit then guess what? You got credit. More than likely the artist would not take you with them when/if they ever got signed and if they wanted to use you they would be told no by the label. Period end of story. The label would not use you as its executive producer. Radio play is determined by who produced the track and you are unknown. Record labels can’t sell records without radio, so you lose either way.


YEAH BUT “ I wanna use this track because I’m also an artist”

Your point? How many times have you heard the same beat but with different artists. Plenty of times. Besides, lets admit it you may not be as good as others. Fuck woul you let Madonna sing on that track. Ummmm YEAH, so whats the difference. They may become big and come back to you at a later time. You would be a dumber = all about you.


YEAH BUT “ I don’t care about all this cuz I copyright my shit”

WHY? FOR WHAT?
Think next month I’ll speak on this topic. Let’s hear your views in the meantime




Last but not least, I have to acknowledge one more group of producers. The “1st Class” producer. These producers are the best out there. They are all around diversed although they may pay particular attention to one genre they can easily make the transition based on the artist. They have no ambition to make it big and don’t actively pursue a career as a mainstream producer. Most of all they know and understand the music business and exactly what it takes to make it even though they never have. It might sound like they’re
Hippocrites, but these people are often successful in many areas of life and can learn to do everything they set their their minds too. The 1st Class producer is like the “Scholar” but aren’t trying to make it big. They just enjoy music, producing, and if it happens it happens, if it don’t it don’t. The scary thing about these people is they’d rather impart all their knowledge, guidance, and assistance to help others live their dreams rather than themselves. Could also be looked at as a good quality. A dumber or NFC should really try to mentor with these people.



In conclusion, there are a few other types that I didn’t mention, but the article really wasn’t geared in their direction. I’m sure you could relate to some of these people, be it you or someone you know. The article wasn’t written to make fun or slander any of the producers just to point out facts and a different way of thinking. In the end, we all wanna be successful, whether its music or life we can always learn from each others.


The Womb
 
PEOPLE!

I'm Sittin hear writin messages saying, NO! askin please for someone to let us use beats to rip on. AND i hear u got beats that u don't even use. Then i hear ur lookin for artist to do somethin with them. I said in my post that will lay tracks for u, and if u don't like what we did with them, THEN u can say, FUCK YOU, find someone else's beats to fuck up. AND if u do like it, It's yours, Will send u the acapella and everything u need. AND if we did get FAMOUS, which will happen sooner or later, THats more money for u, since u'd be makin beats all the time. BUT this is just a offer. Your choice. Were not like them wanna ba rappers, we got style. So please think about that. holla
 
Aw shit, I just wrote a long ass reply and the board f***d it up. It's 5:00 AM I still haven't gone to sleep, but here we go again before I forget.

Good to see you around these parts Gec. I read that post awhile ago and while I don't agree with everything stated I can understand the viewpoints. I don't know what type I am, probably a bit of a few, but I know I'm definitely not a NFC.

This ideology makes me recall what music means to me and why I make it. The closest analogy I can make is to that of love, which is of course quite different than sex.

Sex is meaningless while love is a deep emotional connection. I look at my beats like my girls and I deeply love them. I will happily pass along a girl I had sex with, but one I love I will defend until death. Nothing wrong with sex, but I will choose love everytime, that's just me.

Making a beat into a song is kind of like making love, which is something not everyone is capable of. Sure everybody can have sex, but what does that mean? Nothing.

There are plenty of cats out there making meaningless beats. Let them pimp their whores. Being that I love my beats I'm not going to put them out on a street corner with their legs spread screaming "F**k me", the equivalent of making beats freely available.

Music is supposed to (or at least used to) mean something. With all these new gizmos and programs soon we'll just be punching in equations to get our songs. 2 x 90 BPM x 128 bars x 4/4 = the next hot single. I do my best to STRAY away from that, as far away as possible. I'll be damned if I'm going to let some cat I don't know ruin what I worked so hard at.

The reason this post was addressed to producers is because hopefully we would have a mutual understanding, which I would think would lead to quality collaborations. I'm game for collabos with anybody (including non-producers), but definitely not people I don't know.

Stray
 
Re: PEOPLE!

Hottsauce, don't take this personally because keep in my mind I was just defending you in another thread but ...

hottsauce_21 said:
FUCK YOU, find someone else's beats to fuck up

I (and anyone else who didn't express interest) was politely saying that by not posting in your thread. I listened to your song for about 5 seconds, all it took to realize you have got a long way to go to get decent quality. You may be talented, but unfortunately you talent is sitting behind a wall I can't see through. The wall being bad recording quality.

hottsauce_21 said:
AND if we did get FAMOUS, which will happen sooner or later, THats more money for u, since u'd be makin beats all the time.

Woops. I'm hoping you didn't mean to say that. If you're in this to get famous, quit while you're ahead. Also read up on how record deals work. If I produced your demo I would stand to gain nothing if you got a record deal.

hottsauce_21 said:
BUT this is just a offer. Your choice. Were not like them wanna ba rappers, we got style. So please think about that. holla

We heard your offer the first time. It's a bad idea to force yourself on people. You may have style, now develop the right attitude and maybe you'll have a chance in this industry.

Again don't take this the wrong, just trying to help you out.

Stray
 
Listen 2 him?

Dude actin like he somethin, Everything i said wasn't meant in a bad way, AND don't lie to urself when u say u listened to my song for 5 seconds, I got more talent then you'll ever have, Just a 17 year old teen punkin u. Like i SAID, if u ever did listen, i need Equipment,
IF ANYONE CAN GET PROFESSIONAL SOUND off a $20 mic and computer, HOLLA AT ME.
Cuz oviously it's just not workin for me. Stupid brick, Attitude, ONLY cuz u SUPPLY it. Thats what it take to be heard is ATTITUDE, Thats what makes a song, ATTITUDE. STUPID ASS, Tell me who can make a hit WITHOUT ATTITUDE!!!! u don't know music. DUMB ASS, Quit NOW. CUZ all ur doin is makin a bad name for people who care for music. Famous YEA I SAID IT, MAD, cuz i come out with one song, NOT even good quality and it's better THEN what you'll ever come up with. WHO CARES IF NO ONE LIKES ME. I'm not the bad guy! I try to be nice, BUT it's no use, CUZ BITCH ASS BRICKS like you, RUIN it, I ask a simple question, AND u take things the wrong way BECUZ im better then you. I can't wait to get my equipment, THEN the only excuse you'll have is, " I WAS JUST MAD CUZ UR BETTER THEN ME " so practice that line ok? Late
 
Sorry.

I don't like doing this sort of thing.

But you're wrong, stray is very talented and he knows what he's talking about.

Quite a few people get decent quality out of a $20 mic - I just sorted it out myself (with thanks to kev).

Make ya'self a pop filter.

Just get a metal coathanger, bend it into a circle shape, put some tights or summit like that over it - hold it about 2" from the mic.

Works wonders.

Stray is right. No matter how good you are - boing in it to get famous you will probably find your dream shattered.

So you got skill, you could be brilliant.

There is often I find, more skill on boards like this and on the internet UNSIGNED than there is mainstream who are SIGNED.

Talent really isn't everything, look at Ja Rule for example.

It's luck mostly and no matter how skilled you are you have a very minimal chance that you might even get your demo disc CONSIDERED.

Stray ain't been a "BITCH ASS BRICK" here, I can't find one point where he has done anything to "RUIN it".

You tried to be nice with your asking for producers, yes.

Stray was defending you then.

Now you just aren't even attemptng to be nice.

Treat others how you expect to be treated.

Everyone would love to help you, but that attitude won't get you very far.
 
Re: Listen 2 him?

hottsauce_21 said:
I got more talent then you'll ever have

I know I haven't been postin here for awhile, but who the fuck is this cat

hottsauce_21 said:

IF ANYONE CAN GET PROFESSIONAL SOUND off a $20 mic and computer, HOLLA AT ME.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......you do realize that in your previous quote you stated you had "more talent then you'll ever have"

Well there hot sauce let me break it down for you..... A microphone is used in the recording process to capture the performance of an artist. I've been recording for quite a while and I have yet to find a microphone that can mix down, adds reverb, equalizes, edits, adds compression.....if you do find one though please pass the brand along to me......

A famous g-e-c saying goes like this:

a great artist with a poor producer will always sound bad, but a good producer with a average artist will always sound ok

Probably one the best post on this board with some of the best information coming from blue bear

Click here
 
Keep in mind the majority of albums out there aren't produced by one person. To keep things interesting for my next project I want to use some other cats beats. Anyone else interested in this?

Yo Stray,

I know you don't know me from adam, but if you gotta project that you're working on and you want beats, get at me. Let me know what type of beats you lookin for.



peace
 
Muzic,

I see you've been a member for quite sometime, but I don't recall seeing you around. Welcome to the forum.

I'm game to listen to whatever you have as far as beats go. Just one thing and that is I will probably need a bunch of time to get everything done in that I'm working on both a solo album and a remix album. I can produce pretty quick but lyrics don't come anywhere near as easy for me.

What I'm looking for stylistically are tracks that I personally couldn't make (you can check my website for a reference). The type that come to mind would be commerical/clubby tracks and hardcore/gutter/grimey tracks.

Let me know if that is workable for you and if you want to trade tracks or just have me use yours.

Anyone else down for this ... Lazi, HDHM, BK, Sound, anybody??????

Stray

www.soundclick.com/perpetualproductions
 
I'm cool with the idea...

Just too much going on in my head right now so i'ma get back when I get a free thought.

Just don't know how long it took me to relate that one simple point.... LOL.
 
Not every opinions need to be expressed
not should every thoughts be conveyed

Stray had an idea ,then Gec stopped by on categorising sh*t, then came the most talented of all (Young'n start learning , master you art) . So i sit here judging

Carry on
 
Hey sauce,

If you post or show an improved recording setup or procedure, I'll let you rock a few beats for free.
If you do decide to sell the recordings, just give me my due in the liner notes.
If you search nowhereradio.com under "L.Jamaar" you'll find some examples.

good luck.

-L
 
Back
Top