Why the DISTORTION!!!! AHHHHH

S

Sabith

New member
ok..... I'm cursed....
whenever I mix 2 wav files something in my PC goes haywire and I get distortion coming out ever way..... Both files don't clip once while they were recorded but once I try to play them together ZZZTTTTT!!!! CLIPPING EVERYWHERE!!!!!I'm currently using SAW plus.... I hit the mix down button and suddenly 2 files which never clip become one file that clips constantly... the volume wasn't raised either.... thats the prob... just whenever the 2 things mix... DISTORTION
on whatever I do.

I have a gadgetlabs 424.... I don't know
maybe its the program but itz driving me nuts.

Any tips?
 
I'm not familiar with SAW, but there are a couple of things you can try.

Try bringing down the levels of both tracks and see if the problem goes away. Just because neither track clips doesn't mean it won't clip when you put 'em together. Do you have both faders pegged as high as they'll go?

Also, you might have some other process in the signal path when you mixdown. Is there an auto-normalize or something that might be set as a option in SAW?
 
Thats part of mixing... I dont understand it either...
If you mix each track to the point that it is loud, but not clippiing... Then play back the whole session... It will clip all over the place...
Who knows why???
 
Maybe it's because when you play several tracks at once, the combined output will be higher than the output of each individual track. It's the same phenomenon that make an orchestra louder than each single instrument (I guess). In n-Track for example, there's a setting for automated lowering of the volume when adding tracks. I guess most SW has this type of setting.

Doesn't it help if you lower the master volume? I guess it only the master channel that clips or does the individual tracks clip when played together with other tracks? That would be strange.

/Ola
 
Hi
Drop your Master Bus down from 90 to at least 70 on the software mixer and see if that does the trick on mixdown...

And the might sound silly but some Video Drivers can cause havoc too

Tony
 
You've got to lower the volume of each of the tracks being mixed because this a "summed" digital blend. After the summation the master volume can lower the output level, but if you've already clipped, lowering the output will only produce a quieter version of the clip. In Vegas Pro, mixing four tracks that are really hot, I've gotta turn each one down about 5 - 6 dB at least. Add more tracks and this # goes up. When I ran the max tracks experiment, I had to lower the volume on each channel about 27 dB!
 
Doc of course is offering some excellent input here.

For every track you add to the final mix, you will probably have to lower each track down approx. -6db, as 6db is a doubling of percieved volume (debates seem to continue as to whether 10db is the actual energy difference between double the volume, or if 6db is, I don't know...)

One little problem though, changing the volume on your tracks at mixing requires DSP, and, creates another DSP function that creates longer bit depth on every track, so, the finale mix is that much farther away from the original sound as a result of software dithering that was done to create the proper bit length. You may notice that after turning the volume down over several tracks, applying a tad of eq, then running a few plug in's that there seems to be a bit of a "veil" over the sound now. That is dithering, and while dithering is better then trancute (the lopping off of the least significant bits) it still effects the sound is undesireable ways. Then throw in the fact that it is only 24 bit (fixed) precision processing, you now have some fairly squirlly things going on with the audio..... :( This is bad. Also, this takes away from processor power to run plugin's..... :(

These are the little problems with using software for mixing. This is just a little FYI thing. Really though, it is the reason I have avoided software mixing. Dithering, and DSP power are two things you never have to worry about with an analog mixer... :), but of course, on a budget, the software solution is more economical, but the audio quality pays the price.

Don't think that recording all the sources at a lower volume will help at all. Then you get into low bit resolution during the A/D process, which really makes things sound horrible. Add to low bit resolution the fact that you will probably have to change the volume on the track still, or add a little eq, etc....then you are applying low precision bit processing on a low bit depth audio track. This is the worse possible scenario you can have.

I feel for ya man.....I said it before that I feel bad for people working in the software mixing realm because of all the problems stated above. Compared to those problems, I think I am starting to like the Mackie mixers and 3630 compressors more now.... :)

Ed
 
well... I put the demo of vegas on and
POOOOOF
prob gone..... ya
I don't know or care why.... all I know is that it works... but itz a 7 day demo which kinda sucks.... Hopefully getting Cubases soon.... and if that doesn't work, I will be back with a similar post to this
heh

Thx for the help,

Sabith
 
Hey sonusman, ya got me goin' with your reply cause I'm a rookie with many of the same problems. When you state "..that's the problem with software mixing.", I'm thinking, O.K., as opposed to what? I'm all for analog but where in the chain can analog mixing be used effectively if at all in the realm of computer recording? Thanks.
 
getuhgrip. You will probably not like my suggestion here. But, I would use an analog mixer and only use the computer to record and edit tracks with. This of course requires that you have enough I/O capability on your soundcard, or multiple soundcards running together to get enough tracks at once. It is also sort of more expensive as a 16 channel mixer is probably going to set you back more then a software recorder/editer/mixer would. Then when you count in the dynamic and effect processors, things start adding up on the outboard realm to even have a 16 track setup. So, it really comes down to, if you want better sound, you have to buy it. I think editing on a computer is wonderful, but, I just can't get into mixing with it. The sonic payoffs are too much in my situation. And going to route of software that has better internal bit processing and better dithering schemes starts getting into the cost prohibitive range once again.

Ed
 
So you're not a big fan of any of the surfaces out there, Sonus? At least you can grab knobs... and guys like to grab knobs!
 
Hiya,

Just thought I'd clarify that a 6dB difference is indeed an effective doubling of the sound energy (or pressure) level.

Matt
(A Physicist)

PS I like knobs too ( zero latency hahaha)
 
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