New DAW build advice.

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werewolf831

New member
Hello, been a long time since I've visited but looking for some knowledgable advice. This board has always been my go to for help.

My last build was back in 2004 based on an intel processor, Asus p4p800 mobo, Win XP, M-Audio Delta line of soundcards and CEP 2.0/Adobe Audition 1.0. Been using this for 10 yrs now and ready to upgrade, just finding myself a bit more lost than expected.

Being a hobbyist, I'll primarily be recoding myself using 2-4 ins at a time. This includes a drum machine, amp modeler, as well as micing vox, amps, and other live instruments. I'd however like a build capable of recording 8-16 live instruments (drum kit, full band, etc) as well as handle VST drums and amp sims if I choose to go that path. Going forward, I'll be looking to use Reaper for recording, and will probably go with the Focusrite Scarlett line of interfaces for starters. Of course a PC capable of adding Thunderbolt down the road would be nice.

Here is the build I put together on PC Partpicker. I was hoping to keep it around a thousand or less, but I am flexible and can go higher if it would be beneficial.

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770S 3.1GHz Quad-Core $306.98
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM $62.98
Motherboard: Asus B85M-G Micro ATX LGA1150 $83.99
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 $149.99
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM $50.10 (programs)
Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB 3.5" 5400RPM $54.49 (audio)
Case: Silverstone PS07B MicroATX Mini Tower $69.99
Power Supply: Corsair 430W ATX12V $29.99
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer $19.98
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) $141.27
Total: $969.76

Never overclocked before, and not really planning on it, hence the CPU/mobo combo.
I also went with micro ATX case. I like the idea of going smaller than my current build.
I went with pretty plain drives. Quiet is good, but noise has never been an issue with me before so I didn't add any SSD drives.
The OS is up for debate. I don't like the look of Win 8, but I'll use it. With Win 9 around the corner, I'm really not sure what to do.

Open to all suggestions. Thanks in advance for looking!
 
mjbphotos said:
I think you'll want to look at a 7200RPM drive for your audio.
Click to expand...

+1

Think about to purchase an external USB drive for backup too.

;)

Beside that, your system is awesome. I had an i5 and it barelly goes above the 30% of CPU performance when I am doing my DAW stuff. However, I only RECORD one track at a time...

:thumbs up:
 
Yeah, I'll admit I'm not a go to guy for current specs, but even I know you wouldn't want to cripple yourself with a 5400.
 
Def stick with 7. Many are using 8, but it's just good business with music (and other things that demand stability) to stay a little behind. Shoot, Wal-Mart for all their money are still running XP (upgraded from 98 last year) and Server 2008. Makes for much more stable machines if you hold back a bit.

By the way, why not get the i5-4670 and save 100 bucks. Faster processing, but you lose the hyper threading. Hyper threading can (theoretically) process twice as much data in the same clocks if it's there to work with. Bumping from 3.1 to 3.4 will give you a respectable boost, and there are several here doing what you want to do with less.

Def keep the drives spinning. I use an SSD for my recording drive, but the projects end up on a 7200 and an external. (don't forget to pick up a nice external for safety!)
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I had a feeeling the 5400 drive might not work out. I only picked it because I thought it might run quiter.

Broken_H, good point on the CPU. Someone on pcpart picker actually suggested a Xeon that would cost less than the i74770S as well. I'll have to look into it a little more.

Would anyone know if this mobo would allow the addition of a Thunderbolt port? I'd like to have that option in case the audio interface market goes in that direction in the near future.
 
I would agree with the other guys, go with the 7200 rpm drive at least for your audio.

Honestly with prices where they are right now you'd be crazy not to grab a SSD for your OS/Programs/Reaper drive. It will help with speed of the machine in every aspect from audio to simple booting.

You can pick up a good Crucial SSD or Intel 530 series for about $140 (or less) for a 256gb (dont really need any more on the main drive as your second large drive would be the storage anyway).

Also you can get a thunderbolt PCI-e card so yes you could add it at any time.

You have spec'd out a great machine, with that processor and memory your only bottle neck would be your hard drive (unless you go SSD).

As for the Xeon chip they are fantastic, but without knowing exactly which chip I can't say for certain what is better. The i7 is an amazing chip though and I don't really think you can go wrong with it. Unless you really need to save the cash I'd probably stick with it.

** Edit: Couple SSD Options if you were interested
Intel 530 Series SSDSC2BW240A4K5 2.5" 240GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - Newegg.com
Crucial M500 CT240M500SSD1 2.5" 240GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - Newegg.com
Crucial M550 CT256M550SSD1 2.5" 256GB SATA 6Gb/s MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - Newegg.com


Obviously lots of other vendors you could purchase from. I chose the Intel and the Crucial because of all the SSDs I have installed in the last few years I have been the most impressed with them. There could be better/worse on the market. I've installed PNY, Samsung, Crucial, Intel, Kingston, Mushkin (any maybe another one or two brands). I have had several of each of those brands except for Mushkin, just one of those. Out of those I'd take the intel or the crucial (depending on model too of course).

-Source: I'm an IT Consultant of about 13 years (give or take).
 
I would also agree that an i5 is more than powerful enough and you might as well save the $$s.
Likewise an SSD for OS and DAW seems to be THE advice these days.

You mentioned a Focusrite AI? Now this,...RME Fireface 802 | Sweetwater.com
is quite a chunk more cash* but is Firewire AND USB 2.0. It is a new improved version of the Fireface 800 and FW800 never took off and is deader than FW400!

*The interface is listed here at £1439 and that is over £200 than $2000 works out!

Dave.
 
The Xeon that was recommended to me was an Intel Xeon E3-1241 V3 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor for $269, or the E-3-1246 for $283 if I wanted integrated graphics.

Of course, evryones suggestion of the i5 makes a lot of sense. I'm a bit paranoid about going under powered, which is why I only shopped for the the i7's.

The hard drive guidance is duly noted. I'll add an ssd to the build, and a 7200 for the audio drive.

As for the interface, if I were recording full bands on the regular, I wouldn't hesitate to get the RME. As long as I'm recording solo though, I'll probably go with something less expensive. At most, maybe the Babyface.
 
If you get one of the quad core i-5's you won't have to worry about being under powered.

Honestly once you get up into any decent dual core chip your bottle neck is not going to be your processor, it's going to be your hard drive. I would take a dual core i3 with a solid state drive over a 6 core i7 with a 5400 rpm drive.
 
Hi again Werewolf.
If you are not going multitrack immediately do have a look at the Native Instruments KA6. Two mic/line/instr inputs but an additional two balanced line inputs and SPDIF (MIDI of course).

Thus you have a potential 6 tracker with excellent converters, bomb proof drivers with super low latency.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Hi again Werewolf.
If you are not going multitrack immediately do have a look at the Native Instruments KA6. Two mic/line/instr inputs but an additional two balanced line inputs and SPDIF (MIDI of course).

Thus you have a potential 6 tracker with excellent converters, bomb proof drivers with super low latency.

Dave.
Click to expand...

+1. This was the one I was going to buy. I don't regret getting my US-1800, but I loved the pres and converters on the NI (and the big knob!!!)
 
BroKen_H said:
+1. This was the one I was going to buy. I don't regret getting my US-1800, but I loved the pres and converters on the NI (and the big knob!!!)
Click to expand...

Cheers Ken.
I'll say it again! NI ARE YOU LISTENING??? FFS sake make a bigger AI! 4 mic inputs, 4 lines and, most of all ADAT! If you can keep the build quality and the stonking drivers and the competitive price, hot cakes with not be in it!

Dave.
 
Hey ecc83, thanks for suggesting the NI. I actually spotted one of these in the latest Sweetwater catolog and thought it looked pretty sharp. One of the reasons I was looking at the Scarlett is that one of them, don't remember wich, had adat. Otherwise, the NI looks nicer.

Also, I just remembered why I picked the i7 4770S. The S version is lower watts, which I was told would generate less heat and less noise. Is this sound logic to stick with it? Otherwise, I'll go with the non S version, or maybe the i5 as suggetsed before.
 
werewolf831 said:
Hey ecc83, thanks for suggesting the NI. I actually spotted one of these in the latest Sweetwater catolog and thought it looked pretty sharp. One of the reasons I was looking at the Scarlett is that one of them, don't remember wich, had adat. Otherwise, the NI looks nicer.

Also, I just remembered why I picked the i7 4770S. The S version is lower watts, which I was told would generate less heat and less noise. Is this sound logic to stick with it? Otherwise, I'll go with the non S version, or maybe the i5 as suggetsed before.
Click to expand...

Ooo! Don't let me put you off an ADAT interface if you need one! I have the greatest regard for Focusrite kit and indeed have an 8i6 myself and really could not put a fag paper between then for sound quality. I have not as yet had time to "stress" the 8i6 latencywise but I am sure it is good since the forums are not awash with owners having their gruntles dissed!

I am also NO PC guru! Just what I have gleaned from various readings and my comment re i7/i5were in terms of cost saving not ultimate performance.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Ooo! Don't let me put you off an ADAT interface if you need one!.

Dave.
Click to expand...

No worries! I was only eyeing one with adat in case I want to add something with more ins down the road. I'll deal with that when the time comes.

Now, here are the hard drives I picked. The WD seems pricey, but it has several good reviews. And WD is what's in my current rig of 10 yrs:

Crucial MX100 128GB 2.5" SSD $73.99
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM $88.97

I also dropped the OS from Win7 Pro to Win 7 Home Premium. The Home Premium maxes at 16, which for me I think is enough. I think this will hold me over for a long time to come.

As for the CPU, I'm torn between the i7-4770 (non S version) 3.4GHz for $304.94, or i5-4670 3.4GHz for $214.98. I'm still considering the i7 since Reaper appears to be made to take advatage of hyperthreading. Of course, if this doesn't make a noticable difference, I'll go with the i5. I don't use samples now, but with the new build I'd like to play around with something like ezdrummer and guitar rig.
 
I don't think you will see much of a difference in the i-5 and i-7, we're talking about milliseconds at this point in most tasks. You might want to consider the 256gb drive though just in case
 
polarity said:
I don't think you will see much of a difference in the i-5 and i-7, we're talking about milliseconds at this point in most tasks. You might want to consider the 256gb drive though just in case
Click to expand...

Recording to an SSD will reduce latencies, as well as other wonderful things. Each project folder will be well under 1 GB (about an hour @ 44100/16)(depending on DAW). But following these simple steps you can do it with the smaller SSD: Take a project folder to the ssd, open it from there, when done, move it back to your main drive. A few extra steps, but you store all your projects on the big drive and only use the smaller drive for one at a time. OTOH, bigger is usually better :D
 
BroKen_H said:
Recording to an SSD will reduce latencies, as well as other wonderful things. Each project folder will be well under 1 GB (about an hour @ 44100/16)(depending on DAW). But following these simple steps you can do it with the smaller SSD: Take a project folder to the ssd, open it from there, when done, move it back to your main drive. A few extra steps, but you store all your projects on the big drive and only use the smaller drive for one at a time. OTOH, bigger is usually better :D
Click to expand...

This is a misnomer. While SSDs will help in overall system performance, most of latency is controlled by the interface, driver and CPU. Best an SSD would help in when recording is to reduce audio dropping, but even at 5400 RPM, I do no think this has been an issue in several years. SSD might give you gain on a 24+ track simultaneous recording.

Not saying don't buy one, but their importance is over rated in audio production.

As an added note, I have used AMD chips for years, they will definitely get the job done. Not to be overlooked.
 
DM60: If you have any sources on that I'd love to read it. Depending on how many tracks of stored audio you have I would assume the tracks loaded into the DAW would have to be read by the drive (not just stored in memory). I could easily be wrong as I've never read anything that talks about it, just making a guess.

Anything you have that I could read up on would be great though, I'd love to understand it further.

**Edit: I misread, I thought you were saying SSD wouldn't help with performance in audio work, but you were talking specifically about recording latency
 
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