click at the begining of recordings

discostu

New member
Hey all! ok, here's my problem...
Whenever i mic an amp, i get a clicking sound at the start and end of the track, it only happens when i record amps, and i am using a shure beta 52 micing a bass amp, going into a mackie 1402VLZpro, and into my computers soundcard. It only happens when i mic amps, and i have changed te guitar/amp/mixer/program (was using digital Performer now using pro tools free) and i cant seem to figure out what it is...any help would be great..thanks

-damn clicking ruining my crappy recordings..
 
isolated noise in a wav file can be easily eliminated with a wav editor...........GOLDWAVE is a shareware wav editor......check out www.hitsquad.com for wav editors.
 
ok the problem

First off, if it helps, i am using a mac...
Anyways, one of the biggest problems is that is isnt ACTUALLY there, it clicks when the track comes in, but if u move the track or if you delete the start its still there
 
TAO DAO??

Tao and DAO??? sorry please clarify...is that tape audio outs and digital audio outs? or something....?
 
TAO -- track at once
DAO -- disk at once

Your CD burner software's help system probably has a cogent definition of these modes of writing a CD.
 
Misunderstanding

Ok, what the problem is, is that when an instrument comes into the mix, on the screen i mean, at the place where it comes in, there is a pop, when it leaves there is one, like when u punch in/out u know? nothing to do with cd's or burners
 
stu: eliminate the obvious

The only way you can, er, the only way *I* can troubleshoot like this is to, one by one, eliminate one potential source after another. BUT, I always try to "eliminate the obvious" first. Another way of saying it is, "confirm the things I think I am already sure of" first. This approach always feels like an unnecessary extra boring step, at first, but I always force myself to do it (or, almost always) and I am always pleased when I did. Because I get a warm and fuzzy when I am actually, REALLY sure of something, only because I have gone throught the trouble of testing it out.

For instance-- you switched software, and got the same problem. So we can probably eliminate corrupt software as a culprit. You first thought it was something to do with the micing amps, but now you believe it is simply when any audio that you recorded yourself comes into the mix. I would confirm this knowledge with a few more dumb tests-- i.e. does audio that you didn't record yourself do this (recorded on another system, dowloaded, etc)? What if there is no 'mix' but just the one recorded track (i.e. try to make your tests as absolutely minimalistic as possible)-- is there still a pop? Answer these dumb ones: is it audio you recorded AND edited? Does the length of the audio matter?

Other questions (to rig dumb tests to figure out): Is it the soundcard? First of all WHAT soundcard are you using? Is it a standard setup?-- ie digi001 or Audiomedia for the Mac. If it is all standard it probably isn't a hardware compatability problem. But check out your hardware compatiblity lists/call the vendor (get stupid) anyway: i.e. maybe it's a version incompatability. Remember: don't make ANY assumption. Rig tests to confirm things you think you are sure of first. Prove dumb things first. Then you will have a level of confidence to move onto a less dumb thing. This especially helps if you are dumb like me.

Do the samething with the OS version vs the soundcard: make sure they're definitely deemed compatible by the vendors.

Maybe it's a connection problem. You can try switching cards if this is feasible, or minimally remove and reinsert the one you have (you would be surprised how often a bad connection fucks things up). You might be able to get a different card temporarily somehow. A lot of stores have return policies. I might get another brand. It could be a cheaper brand, just different. If another card works then you know you are on the trail, but not yet there. You can then try doing the same with another card of the same type as your original. If that works then you can figure it might be a defective card.

You might have a software compatablity issue or a configuration issue. To fix software related problems I always try to eliminate everything I am not testing. Make the whole thing as bare-bones as humanly possible. Turn off all start up software/device driver switches so that you are not running anything else, or at least as little else as necessary

Try to rig up real "stupid" tests, in general: i.e. one track, one little sound recording. Oh, and don't assume that if you can't SEE the spike in the waveform that it isn't there, but just not being displayed. Did you try cutting the spiked parts out and just playing the spiked/ unspiked original audio seperately what happens? Also- don't automatically eliminate the source of the problem being external to your computer/soundcard. Prove it! Any part of the chain is suspect until PROVEN otherwise with a test or two.

You can also be "creatively stupid" in your tests, but only after you have been just "basically stupid". Rig tests that mix variables, and see what happens. If you think you found the problem, or part of the problem, rig a test to confirm the theory.

If you approach the problem this way, move slowly methodically, and stupidly, like a big ole dumb bear, you WILL fix it. Trust me. Just remember: get stupid, and stop making assumptions-- even small ones. It may be annoying and frustrating, but this is the only way I know to fix computer problems myself and I have been doing this professionally (fixing computer problems) for twenty years.

luck,
-jk
 
Thanks for the post!

Hey thanks alot for that last post, i will follow your suggestions. I have been trying to do that, like, i will record one track with the bass being mic'd and the click will still be at the begining/end.....and i have tryed to import audio, and have found that it only happens with things I record. This does not happen with drums or anything else except amps. I have concluded that the problem is definitly not the following: amp, guitar, mic, mixer, cables, extension conflics, or software problems. This leads me to believe that it is my audio card. Sadly im only using the macs internal card as of now but am looking for a new (decent) card.

Also, i have ruled out the possibility of (and i know this sounds funny, but the electrical wiring in my house is incredibly screwed) some sort of power problem, by taking an extension cord around the house.....i know it sounds funny, but hey, you never know, and it was easy enough
 
Describe how you are recording, your process. Maybe that'll help.

In the meantime, clicks can certainly occur if you start playing and then hit record... the recorder starts collecting data at some give instant and it the first sample it gets does not have zero amplitude, this means that the data in the file has a step discontinuity in it. If you're playing then or there's any significant noise, there will likely be an audible click.

Same thing will occur if you cut a segment from one audio file and past it in another and the cut's endpoints were not made at zero crossings. A sudden change of sample amplitude sounds like a click.
 
stu:

".....i know it sounds funny, but hey, you never know, and it was easy enough"

Good thinking. That's exactly what I am talking about. You are in the right frame of mind now. Don't be afraid to try what seem like stupid ideas. You could also try rigging the whole thing up in someone else's house, since you say all your wiring is screwed up in yours...

"...but if u move the track or if you delete the start its still there"

Do you mean that you tried cutting away the poping part of the audio file? Did you try and create a NEW audio file from the cut part? What happens then? Still hear the pop? In a different place?

"... This does not happen with drums or anything else except amps."

This is valuable information. You are recording something live, but no pop. Hmmm. Very interesting. What is different when you record drums? What do you mean by "anything else"? Do you mean vocals? You are recording bass AND guitar through the amp, or just bass? Are they both screwed or just the bass ?

Could it be an issue of line levels coming in, or a line spike? How are you recording the amp-- are you micing it? Going direct? Does the mic pass through the mixer? Do the drums also pass through the same mixer? the same channel on the mixer? Are you using the same mic for drums and amp?

Try the following:

- turning the mixer output levels WAY down and recording
- if you are going direct from the amp to the card, try micing the amp and going through the mixer (and vice versa if you're going the other way)
- turning the input levels in PT WAY down and recording
- turning the amp volume WAY down and recording
- basically, try turning everything way down, and recording-- this MIGHT reveal if your card is having a problem with higher volume levels -- (and it might not--for instance what if the issue is some sort of shorting in the guitar/amp or mic/mixer/card chain-- this test would not reveal anything about that)

You can also:
- try using a DIFFERENT amp.
- try using a different mic
- try using a different mixer (if possible - can you borrow someones?)
- try using a different (fill in the blank -- i.e. audio cables, computer, mixing track, etc.)

.. what happens to the pops? (See what I mean -- eventually you will HAVE to track down the problem if you proceed along these lines, even if it means switching the computer!)

What happens to drum recordings when the mixer levels are turned way UP? What about the mixer channel? Are you using the same one for drums and amp?

" I have concluded that the problem is definitly not the following: amp, guitar, mic, mixer, cables, extension conflics, or software problems. "

I agree that the MAC audio card probably sucks, but I wouldn't necessarily jump to this conclusion you have made. The fact is that you CAN record without pops. A different card might help, even if the problem is external to the card.. It might filter out a short/line spike better. Also - are you sure that PT knows which audio card you are using (you have got to configure it I think, even if it is the regular Mac card)?

Anyway, if a new card fixes it, so what if it isn't the actual problem! But it might be good to know the true culprit anyway.

Good Luck,
Jerry
 
stu--

Let me modify that a little. If you weren't going direct from your amp to your card (i.e. you were micing the amp) you probably don't need to test the direct thing. But if you really want to test it (and your amp has a direct output) I would turn the amp output way down at first and be careful... although it probably wont hurt anything anyway, if its a decently made amp thats not too old. I hope.

ciao
jk
 
stu: because I am at work, with nothing better to do, I have thought of another test you can run: What happens when, as opposed to punching in/out, you do regular recording in the following way: start with input level at the lowest point (on both the PT side and the mixer side), start recording on PT, then gradually raise the levels of the mixer to a moderate/less than moderate volume, PT input fader, and amp, while playing, then reduce the levels to naught, and end the recording. Actually the more I think about your problem the more I think that it is either a bad Audio card, a shitty audio card, or an improperly configured audio card/PT situation. But it still helps to run as many tests as possible.
 
Jerry:

Thanks SOOOO much for all the posts, they have been of great help to me, although at this point i have not had that chance to perform many of the tests because i have been on holidays since thrusday....

Will try many of the tests and get back t you! (if you care to check the forum again, your call...)

Anyways, cant thank u enough...

-Stu

also, i am going to try and mix down a track of what i am talking about and post it as an mp3 or something to give everyone a clearer picture of what i am talking about
 
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