Too much dynamics? lack of headroom? PEBKAC?

[bluesfordan]

I've been running into issues recording guitar direct to my late 2012 mac mini i5 dual core 2.5 GHz 16 GB DDR3 1600 MHz with Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB. I alternate between direct into the mic input and using my Behringer UMC404HD. Guitars are passive single coils and humbuckers, no active electronics. No effect boxes being used. Sometimes a DI box is used.

It doesn't seem to matter what I do, it seems like the line between not loud enough and too loud is way finer than it should be. I play with a fairly light touch but I do like dynamics, in other words, accents in strokes to emphasize rhythm. Is that wrong? Should I not do that? Because I'm constantly getting farting noises whenever I seem to do more than look at the low E string. Does the problem exist between keyboard and chair? (or in this case mic input and chair?)

Fine, I can accept the idea that I have to limit my enthusiasm. But the results are so incredibly blah and boring. how the hell do people do this?

 

[Farview]

Use the interface and set the recording level so that the loud, low notes hit about -10dbfs or so on the meters in your daw.

The problem with going into the Mic input on your laptop is that there is no gain control to set the level, plus it is a sensitive input that is easily overloaded.

If the Behringer has an instrument input, use that. If it doesn't, and the line inputs don't have gain controls, get a direct box. (An active one, if your guitars are passive)

 

[Steenamaroo]

I alternate between direct into the mic input and using my Behringer UMC404HD.

Hey,
Big +1 there. The ins and outs on the behringer completely replace those on the computer. Always use those.
The behringer has instrument level input so you can just 1/4" straight into the front of it, and set your line/inst switch to inst.

Regarding levels - You don't really have to limit my enthusiasm.
That sounds like sound-check syndrome. Everyone plays twice as loud after the gains are set.

Just set your gain so that it's safe and not clipping when you are playing your absolute hardest. That way it will never clip.
If some passages are too quiet having done that then you can adjust them after wards in mixing.

Are you using any kind of amp similar? 100% dry DI guitar is incredibly wimpy and inconsistent sounding - Going through an amp lets you hear what's really happening, a lot of the time.

 

[keith.rogers]

To try and consolidate the answers so far (which are all correct), I'd just plug into the Behri with a guitar cord and depress the LINE/INST pushbutton on that channel. Adjust gain as [MENTION=28025]Farview[/MENTION] says with the guitar controls at the maximum you will be recording at. Use an amp sim plugin if necessary to get the quality you need to hear (for tracking).

If you record at 24-bits, so long as there's no clipping it should be fine for any subsequent mixing.

If you simply cannot get a sound that works for you, plug into an amp and mic that.

But, regardless, either of those two are methods we've all used successfully at one time or another, so just keep working on a single approach and reduce the jumping around until you figure out how to do it and get tracks you can work with.

 

[bluesfordan]

thanks everybody for the replies so far.

re: the mic input of my mac (or computers in general). I've wondered about this. Is it universal to not have gain control of the mic input of computers? I suppose that's the point of using USB et al for interfaces. I still have the issue with overdriving the input of the interface even when I use the instrument level button.

as far as the amp sims go, they respond to what goes in, if farting is going in, then gnarlier farting comes out. I neglected to mention I'm using GarageBand.

I sometimes wonder if I need a hardware compressor to dampen dynamics before I let the A/D converters do their thing.

 

[Farview]

re: the mic input of my mac (or computers in general). I've wondered about this. Is it universal to not have gain control of the mic input of computers?

Yes. They are meant to have a cheap mic from Best Buy plugged in, so that people can use skype or do on-line gaming. They are certainly not meant to be used for direct bass guitar recording.

 

[Steenamaroo]

thanks everybody for the replies so far.

re: the mic input of my mac (or computers in general). I've wondered about this. Is it universal to not have gain control of the mic input of computers? I suppose that's the point of using USB et al for interfaces. I still have the issue with overdriving the input of the interface even when I use the instrument level button.

There's a tonne of reasons not to use the built in mic input. Here are some of them.
They're not balanced.
They don't provide phantom power.
They're generally low quality.
The built in audio drivers usually aren't good for low latency.
Using built in and external interfaces together is a mess (although, admittedly, not so much on mac)
There's no gain control.

If you're plugging a guitar into the front of your interface via 1/4" and setting the switch to "inst", then the gain control should cover your needs.
If you have that gain at zero and the guitar is still clipping the input stage, something is badly wrong, I think.

Are you literally running guitar-cable-interface, or is there some other device in the path?

Again, are you using an amp sim? Any plugins or software could potentially clip on the way out, even if your input signal is healthy.
IE, you may not actually be clipping on the way in.

The behringer has a red clip LED per input channel on the front if it. Keep an eye on that.
If it's not blinking red while you're playing the instrument then your signal is healthy and the clipping is on the way out.

 

[ashcat_lt]

First of all yes, you probably could stand to refine your technique. We all could. Always. Listen to the strings themselves, like acoustically. Are they actually "farting"? Some people can make an acoustic guitar do the same thing.

Is the guitar set up correctly with action, nut height, and intonation good for what you're trying to play? A lot of times fret buzz sounds like farting out, too. That can be caused by poor left hand technique and/or poor setup.

Look at the distance between your pickups and the strings. If they're way too close sometimes the strings will actually hit them and make all kinds of ugly noises. Even if they don't, though, sometimes if they're just too close it can accentuate some of the fartiness you're talking about. Lowering them will affect the overall tone some and the volume even more, but it could help. And remember they don't necessarily have to be flat. Sometimes it can help to lower the side under the wound strings a little further than the other. Do this by ear until you get the kind of balance that you can work with.

Most interfaces add 9-10db gain when you push the Inst button. That's enough to make some hot humbuckers clip some interfaces. If you turn the gain knob all the way down, and it's still clipping at the interface, the best thing to do is to stop adding that extra gain. That's not the same thing as turning it down 9-10db before the interface! Use a buffered guitar pedal or an active DI and plug turn off the Inst switch. If you're using more than a tiny bit of overdrive on your amp sim, though, it usually doesn't matter at all if you clip the ADC on the way there. If you need crystal clean, then you need to watch it, and it's not a bad idea to just avoid clipping anyway, but metal dudes who worry about clipping on the way to their TS/5150 chain are silly.

 

[keith.rogers]

[MENTION=193247]bluesfordan[/MENTION], record your guitar straight in with the INST despressed to a 24-bit AIFF file and post the unedited/mixed file so we can see the "farting" you're experiencing.

Open the GarageBand project file in Finder to expose the media and just grab/upload the file from there, is easiest. i don't know if this site lets you upload those file types so post it on Dropbox or similar and give us a link. I'm curious what you're actually capturing.

 

[bluesfordan]

excellent, I thank all of you. There's a wealth of information here and I've got some homework to do.

just watch, I'll be trying to capture that farting noise and now I'll be unable to reproduce it

 

[bluesfordan]

I don't quite know how I did it but something was terribly awry earlier and I couldn't get any sound at all to play through the headphones or through the interface. In my stumbling around, I found the sound preferences and noticed that the UMC was listed and the input was about half way. I raised it to maximum and lo

I now have nice big fat wave forms

and much more head room than I had before. I almost have to intentionally raise the gain on the UMC to make that farting noise I heard earlier and I have greater range of gain to fine the sweet spot.

so far that was with straight input guitar, I haven't tried the amp sims yet. That is next. I'm afraid it was PEBKAC (problem exist between keyboard and chair). Operator error. Mea Culpa.

I'll show myself out now.