Studio Monitors

[Pinky]

This is why so many of us have nice home/car stereos to back up our guess work...

We would (should) be doing this anyway (that isn't the question here). Shifting mixes to/from other playback sources is tedious and never exacting (or a desirable means to an end). If this needs to be done a lot, then IMO the monitoring setup needs improvement/isn't any better than the 'other' supposedly inferior playback sources that the mixes are being run through. I rarely make changes anymore based on playback outside the music room. I still do it, just to be sure, but it's not the primary tool to accomplishing the mix.

I was once a fan of using compromised gear and getting the most I could. Then as I learned more it became apparent that certain things could be compromised, others could not. Quality mixing headphones and monitors cannot be easily substituted.

 

[BroKen_H]

...and still, we're talking about people who are looking at $200-350 per PAIR monitors...Yes, they'll need better. Not questioning that, but this is their entry.

I haven't used my car stereo in a year and TBH, only check mixes on the surround in the living room when I feel like I'm done (just to be sure). I get it. But I also get where these guys are coming from. I started on Rokit 5s in an untreated room. I was not a fan...

My new speakers were $750 per pair, that's out of the budget they're looking at. It was over my $700 budget at the time, too. Am glad I spent the extra. BUT, I bet I could do better with a nice pair of KH310s or a set of Trio 6's with the matching sub...again, I'm doing what I can with what I can afford. First off, I couldn't afford the room in which to make those Neuman/Focal speakers do their magic.

 

[garww]

As far as I can tell, an approximation of Swedien's old rig and a decent amp system is about all one needs for mixing - ashtray, cubes, jbl, something like Westlakes for Studio Monitors

 

[Pinky]

...and still, we're talking about people who are looking at $200-350 per PAIR monitors...Yes, they'll need better. Not questioning that, but this is their entry... But I also get where these guys are coming from. I started on Rokit 5s in an untreated room. I was not a fan...

We all started someplace with gear. The price point is really the only reason these smaller models exist (for the most part, there is a time/place for higher end smaller model monitors/speakers). But that doesn't change the fact they're an inadequate solution. If someone wants to race competitively they don't buy a Nissan Sentra and "make do". They save up for the right car.

It seems with this thread I'm taking a stance against suggesting these lower end monitors. They're inadequate for most uses and I don't care much to sugar coat it anymore.
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Those look like decent monitors garww.

 

[BroKen_H]

Yeah, and the avantone mixcubes are in their budget!!! (well, the bottom of the line ones...the good ones are almost twice that.

 

[Pinky]

Yeah, and the avantone mixcubes are in their budget!!! (well, the bottom of the line ones...the good ones are almost twice that.

The proper answer is - "those monitors suck, save your money and get these instead". Just because someone can't afford something doesn't mean they should be steered into wasting their money on junk.

There's a definite price point for certain things in the home recording world. Often you only need to spend a little more. $100 for a pair of monitors is grotesquely "cheap". Maybe one day prices will come down that far on decent gear, but that day isn't today.

Craigslist and from trusted ebay sellers would be a better option for those on a limited budget IMO.

 

[BroKen_H]

We all started someplace with gear. The price point is really the only reason these smaller models exist (for the most part, there is a time/place for higher end smaller model monitors/speakers). But that doesn't change the fact they're an inadequate solution. If someone wants to race competitively they don't buy a Nissan Sentra and "make do". They ssave up for the right car.

It seems with this thread I'm taking a stance against suggesting these lower end monitors. They're inadequate for most uses and I don't care much to sugar coat it anymore.
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Those look like decent monitors garww.

Yes, I agree. There is really no point in taking a stock 74 Pinto to the Pro/Strip circuit. It's really not even a nice or a fun car to drive, and there's always the possibility it could blow up if you get rear-ended.
With your Sentra analogy, you are assuming they want to be in that bracket. You can learn to shift, power clutch, line stall and lots of other necessary skills with a used manual Sentra. I'm all for nice speakers. I think mine ARE. I'm not saying you are wrong or I am right. But I'm not assuming they're going to even try to compete with $300 a pair monitors. They're honestly better off using good cans at half that price point. (...AAAAANND that could open a whole other can of worms, but case in point--Taras has made some excellent mixes using nothing more then Senny 280s and his car stereo.)

I see the point of having $600-1000 mid level monitors for a decent home studio. I also see the point of not overspending when you first get into the game. Between my software, KRK's, mikes, cables, stands and interface I had less than $1k invested when I started. I've put $12k in since then (once I decided I wanted to do this.) There's no shame in practicing in a Pinto on dirt roads...been there, done that.

 

[Pinky]

I see the point of having $600-1000 mid level monitors for a decent home studio. I also see the point of not overspending when you first get into the game. Between my software, KRK's, mikes, cables, stands and interface I had less than $1k invested when I started. I've put $12k in since then (once I decided I wanted to do this.) There's no shame in practicing in a Pinto on dirt roads...been there, done that.

It's not about shame, it's about viability.

A $100 pair of 280 Pros would be of greater benefit to a new mixer than any $100 new pair of monitors. So wouldn't that be a better suggestion? If you're going to buy a crappy monitor or mediocre headphone, which would be better?

You won't get me to agree that the $100 monitors were a good purchase.

 

[BroKen_H]

...and yes, I wish everyone WOULD save until they can afford LSR 308s or Adam 7s or even M-Audio M3-8s. There's a lot to be said for having a good set of monitors. It's even nicer to have near-field and mid-field (as I now do). No buts. They really need to. Now, WILL they?

 

[Pinky]

There's a lot to be said for having a good set of monitors. It's even nicer to have near-field and mid-field (as I now do). No buts. They really need to. Now, WILL they?

"It's better to wear a condom, but if you don't have one go ahead anyway. Here wrap this around it." lol

 

[miroslav]

The thing that most low budget minded pepople forget (or try to ignore) is that their low budget won't change the laws of physics and acoustic properties. IOW..."home recording" doesn't let you change the rules or allow for special circumstances.

I'm actually surprised how many people buy monitors either as an afterthought or as the last thing out of their budget.
Now it wouldn't be a problem if they just accepted their results and that was the end of it...but many will then spend many hours in the studio or on the forums, trying to sort out their issues.

There is a fairly hard price line...and everything over it is going to be very usable and/or a question of personal tastes.
Everything below that line...is going to be limiting on one or more levels.
Going back maybe 5-10 years...that price point was like $1200 for a pair of monitors...might be higher today.
TBH...it wasn't off the mark. I spent a lot of time auditioning monitors...in store and in studio...and that was the price line that started to make the difference between good monitors and make-do monitors.

You can monitor on one of those computer speaker bars if you like...but it's just not going to really cut it.

 

[BroKen_H]

I'm imagining the "this" in that scenario...I still think we're semi-agreeing...which is actually NOT agreeing, but I can see your point, and I'm sure you can see mine. What you are looking for is a cessation of KRK5/LSR305/4"Cube recommendations based on their total unusable nature.

Point being, if you buy those and add a sub later, you're going to be okay (IF everything else is done correctly--crossover/room treatment/placement/etc. AND you're still not trying to compete with *RAMI/Greg_L* mix quality). If you buy those and use them for near-fields to your mid-fields later, you're even better.

Blowing an entire $1000 budget on speakers and ignoring mikes and software and room treatment is probably not the greatest solution either...

And yes, I would certainly recommend 280/380Pro's to someone who has no budget for room treatment based on their usability later when they CAN afford room treatment and good monitors. Not that mixing in cans is a good practice. Mixing on ear buds would be a disaster, regardless of the fact that lots of people will be listening on their iPad...

So, yes. I agree people shouldn't waste their money on junk. I disagree that KRK5s or Adam 7s (which were the choices in the OP) are junk. I happen to use my KRK5's, but honestly would not recommend them over LSR 305s or Avantone MixCubes....especially not over the Adam 7s.

 

[garww]

..."KH310s"

god, KH look so right. Would love to have even the little 120. the 310 wouldn't have a easy time prying me from my alnico 12 & 5-inch and compression tweeter, though. I really don't get dome tweets in the studio, unless one really likes sound bouncing all over the place, for some reason

 

[RFR]

It sounds like the OP is relatively new to recording. Don't know that for a fact but, that's the impression I get from the posts.

I'm seeing posts that seem to be more geared to discourage and stop the person rather than inspire. This is after all the HOME RECORDING forum, geared to anyone from the newb,to the hobbyist, and there are many that are quite good and skilled in the craft.

Along with great monitors, comes a great room, and great ears. A newb often doesn't have the third. The first two can be obtained with money, but the last only comes with experience.


So lets cut the newb a break, shall we?? let him have some fun, make some music, and gain some experience. As time goes on the experience and the ears will get better.

 

[garww]

Ya, its possible the M-Audio are close to Clearmountain's Apple speakers in some ways. I've been through the process of EQing computer speakers with the sub and normal dinky ones. You can probably get flat for mixing, but mine sure sounded like garbage : ) I reject amps in much the same way. The Minimus with that funky top-knot tweeter also seemed to get some Mastering usage. They're just tools.e

EDIT I guess they were optimus, not minimus (brain fart) - lx5 or, pro77 pro x77. I think it was take your work home and master on the dining room table thing associated with some engineer.

 

[jimmys69]

...and yes, I wish everyone WOULD save until they can afford LSR 308s or Adam 7s or even M-Audio M3-8s. There's a lot to be said for having a good set of monitors. It's even nicer to have near-field and mid-field (as I now do). No buts. They really need to. Now, WILL they?

BTW, I just bought a pair of ADAM A7x's. The angels are singing praise...

I should have made that investment years ago. In time alone, I probably would have already paid for them.

But I have myself gone in small increments to achieve where I am now. Started with KRK G2 5", then Event TR8's. Both $300 bought used. Added a sub. Still shit. Invested in room treatment and things became more clear as to what was wrong. Then KRK G2 8's. Wasted (learned) time with those as they showed their inability to give honest clarity. The Event TR8's actually were my best at the time for translating mixes. Now the A7X's are allowing me to get more precise in my mixes even though I am now learning what they are telling me.

So...If I did not improve my interface and mics, I would not know that I needed improvement elsewhere. If i didn't take measures to acoustically treat my room, I would not know that I needed improvement elsewhere. If I did not purchase software that improved my recordings, I would not know what I needed.... You all get it.

Each step to achieve 'the best it can be' are small steps from the start. Personal budget limits that tho...

So for anyone starting out, I would do what you budget allows and think more of the room and monitoring at a level that is appropriate for what you have to spend. One step at a time. It slowly becomes obvious what the weakest link is.

From my personal experience I would place room treatment in priority before monitor quality. But, I am not sure a set of good monitors wouldn't benefit right off. Anything is better than mixing on headphones though IMO.

 

[RFR]

All good lessons in your journey to accurate monitoring.

However, my first post in this thread still rules!

He already bought the M Audio monitors. Now he needs to learn them.

 

[jimmys69]

It sounds like the OP is relatively new to recording. Don't know that for a fact but, that's the impression I get from the posts.

I'm seeing posts that seem to be more geared to discourage and stop the person rather than inspire. This is after all the HOME RECORDING forum, geared to anyone from the newb,to the hobbyist, and there are many that are quite good and skilled in the craft.

Along with great monitors, comes a great room, and great ears. A newb often doesn't have the third. The first two can be obtained with money, but the last only comes with experience.


So lets cut the newb a break, shall we?? let him have some fun, make some music, and gain some experience. As time goes on the experience and the ears will get better.

I didn't feel that anyone wasn't doing other than giving real advice to the OP.

I would always say start with what one can afford. BUT: there is always better - and that becomes obvious with experience.

Having fun is the bottom line. The fact that recording at home is even possible at the quality level that comes out of entry level 'boxed' gear is quite amazing. What users do with and learn from what they have, is for them to decide.


BTW, I have a pair of KRK G2 8's for sale for $200.

 

[RFR]

BTW, I have a pair of KRK G2 8's for sale for $200.

Thats a good price. And even though they aren't accurate for mixing, they'll make good tracking monitors. Replacement drivers are cheap enough so if you're running some volume through them and blow one up, it's not the end of the world.

 

[garww]

All my unpowered speakers are used. Only one bad shipping incident.

With Paypal one can have ns1000 humming away for $1100