Are some DAWs just more stable than others?

Nate74

Nate74

HR4FREBR
I started with Cakewalk probably a dozen or more years ago as I left the analog world. I upgraded to Sonar 6 Studio at some point and then to Sonar Producer X1. I only record my own bands and personal demo material so I'm far from a power user. I record actual instruments with microphones and don't do the virtual instrument thing or MIDI, etc. I started recording back in the day with a 8-track reel-to-reel, a 16 channel mixer, and real outboard effects. And to this day, I still think about recording that way. I'm mostly likely using less than 5% of the capabilities that Sonar Producer X1 has to offer.

That being said, I feel like sometimes I spend more time dealing with stability issues with Sonar than I do working on music. I've probably got it so messed up with countless installs and uninstalls, it may never be right at this point. I've taken to periodically exporting each individual track out of song files as .wav files just for when the program decides it wants to crash and not let me back in, I can start a new project and import the audio files from my backup. This adds about an hour to most sessions which seems ridiculous.

As I read the Cakewalk forum, here and elsewhere, I see lot of people with various stability struggles and it gets me thinking are there other DAWs out there that are just more stable or do they all get messed up like my version of Sonar seems to be?

I'm not a computer guy so when I read things about the need to do clean installs of Windows on new hard drives or issues with registry entries, etc. I just want to run for the hills.

I just want to be able to record up to 16 channels into my DAW, do some editing, adds some effects and make my mixes.

Should I look at a different DAW? Do I have too many VSTs in my effects folder? Is Sonar salvagable with out major IT efforts?

Any thoughts and guidance would be much appreciated.
 
Yikes, that just sounds like an awful experience. I'm not a Sonar user, but I can't imagine that they'd still be in business if it were a routine thing for it to be that unstable.

What are your computer specs? The model and speed of the CPU, amount of installed RAM, amount of free hard drive storage, which operating system you're using, etc.

I probably need to set up a hotkey for recommending Reaper, since I do it so often. But it's free to try, cheap to buy, and totally worth checking out. If you get tired of futzing with Sonar, it wouldn't cost you anything to just try Reaper for a few sessions and see if it holds together any better for you.
 
Tadpui said:
Yikes, that just sounds like an awful experience. I'm not a Sonar user, but I can't imagine that they'd still be in business if it were a routine thing for it to be that unstable.

What are your computer specs? The model and speed of the CPU, amount of installed RAM, amount of free hard drive storage, which operating system you're using, etc.

I probably need to set up a hotkey for recommending Reaper, since I do it so often. But it's free to try, cheap to buy, and totally worth checking out. If you get tired of futzing with Sonar, it wouldn't cost you anything to just try Reaper for a few sessions and see if it holds together any better for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for jumping in.

Let's see, here's what I can tell about my PC. It says:
Pentium Dual-Core CPU E6700 @3.2GHZ 3.20 GHz
Installed memory(RAM): 8.00GB
System type: 64-bit Operating System
And it's running on Windows 7 Home Premium

I have two hard drives installed, the C: drive has 348GB Free of 465GB and the D: drive has 678GB free of 931GB.

Somebody told me a lot time ago to keep my project files on a different drive than my program files so when I ordered this computer, I had them put in two hard drives.

Since my first post, Sonar Producer has crashed again. I reinstalled the older version of Sonar 6 Studio with the hopes of getting through the current demo project I'm working on. I had re-learning the layout but it hasn't crashed since I switched back over about an hour ago, which makes it better than Producer...

I'll look into Reaper for sure. I've always heard good things about it. I also have a free trial of Cubase AI from when I purchased a Steinberg UR44 that I guess I'll check out.

I agree with you that there's no way Sonar Producer should be doing this to me, but I can't see any way to completely start from scratch with it. Everytime I reinstall it, there are clearly files that were left behind so it's not a scratch install...

I suspect I've messed it up somehow, but who knows.. :(
 
I was thinking that maybe your computer was underpowered, but based on your specs, that's a pretty solid machine all-around. Definitely a good call to keep a separate drive for audio projects.

There must be something corrupted with Sonar on your machine. I don't really have the troubleshooting chops for Sonar to help you much in figuring out what the problem is. Beyond the obvious things like scanning for malware and/or viruses, maybe running a registry cleaner, and scanning the disk for errors, I'm not sure what all files/registry entries to look for in-between uninstalling and reinstalling Sonar.

You might be able to look for clues after it crashes in the event viewer. You can go to Start->Run and type eventvwr.exe, then look under Windows Logs->Application Logs and look for warnings or errors that either Sonar or Windows logged. It might give a clue as to what the heck happened when it crashed, or it might be of no use whatsoever. But it'd be worth a look, and won't harm anything.
 
Tadpui said:
I was thinking that maybe your computer was underpowered, but based on your specs, that's a pretty solid machine all-around. Definitely a good call to keep a separate drive for audio projects.

There must be something corrupted with Sonar on your machine. I don't really have the troubleshooting chops for Sonar to help you much in figuring out what the problem is. Beyond the obvious things like scanning for malware and/or viruses, maybe running a registry cleaner, and scanning the disk for errors, I'm not sure what all files/registry entries to look for in-between uninstalling and reinstalling Sonar.

You might be able to look for clues after it crashes in the event viewer. You can go to Start->Run and type eventvwr.exe, then look under Windows Logs->Application Logs and look for warnings or errors that either Sonar or Windows logged. It might give a clue as to what the heck happened when it crashed, or it might be of no use whatsoever. But it'd be worth a look, and won't harm anything.
Click to expand...

I'll certainly take a look at the event viewer. I fear though that it may not be salvageable.

So is Reaper really only $60? I've been poking around on their website and it sure seems like it would do everything I'd ever need it to do.
 
Your computer looks fine. It should do audio with a breeze.

Sonar is a well-respected product and should not be giving you grief.

I would recommend using Reaper as well.

However, have you run through the other possibilities of crashes? Like human diseases, symptoms in one area might be caused by problems somewhere else. There are obvious things to look for, such as viruses, malware and so on. Other things that can cause havoc are things like Wi-Fi.

Then there is hardware. I once had problems with Reaper freezing. After much hair pulling out, it turned out to be a failing graphics card. When the card was replaced, it was back to business as usual.

Heat can be the cause of shut-downs. Dust can accumulated in the CPU's heatsink, and it results in overheating.
 
I've kept this PC off the internet and off Wi-Fi to avoid viruses and what not. Interestingly, SONAR Studio 6 has always been solid on this machine. And today I've used it to open Producer created tracks to export the raw .wav files as back up and it's been just fine. And REAPER has been stable for the last hour or so, as well making me think the issue is solely with my installation of SONAR Producer.

I read a post on the SONAR forum about a guy who had to do a clean install of Windows 7 and start from absolute scratch to get his SONAR product to work... that won't be me.

I currently don't have Producer installed but will start the process after I've exported all my raw .wav files from my current project as back up. Then I can do some more investigation.
 
If you're using a lot of VSTs, my guess is that one or more of them may be causing the crashes, rather than SONAR itself. In particular, cheap or free VSTs that haven't been through a lot of rigorous real-world testing and multiple generations of bug-fixing updates can be prone to crashing or other glitches.
 
Disable the overclock temporarily.
0.6ghz OC is definitely enough to cause massive problems depending on the board, chip, and how you're doing it.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Disable the overclock temporarily.
0.6ghz OC is definitely enough to cause massive problems depending on the board, chip, and how you're doing it.
Click to expand...

I appreciate everybody's feedback and thoughts. I did have a couple VSTs running, but most recently it was on a song that had only effects that came with Sonar.

I'll confess, I don't follow the comment about overclock, or what 0.6ghz OC is? Can you dumb that down for me? I'll try anything at this point... thanks again.
 
Every DAW and system it is ran on is stable, until it isn't. Funny but sadly true at the same time.

I think I have had every piece of gear or software screw up at some point. After many years I am on my third computer system build specifically for recording with Cubase, and so far this last one is working flawlessly. Knock on the wood...

There are times when OS or software becomes corrupted and things just don't work right anymore. Then there are the times when hardware starts to fail or drivers do not work with software updates. It can be a nightmare if you let it. Most often though it is an easy software preferences file reset. Or a reinstall of software. The hard part is finding what the issue actually is...

I wish you the best here because I feel your pain.

I would have more to say if I had any clue about your software.
 
Yes, Reaper is $60 to register, free to d/l full version and try it out.

Definitely open up your computer box and make sure there isn't a heatsink dust issue. I was hearing more fan noise than usual at times, so opened mine up to find a huge amount of dust in the fan over the heatsink. No fan noise since.
 
It's good to know I have Reaper as a back up if Sonar keeps this up, it will be time to switch.

I reinstalled Producer X1 last night and two things odd happened. First, the icon showed up as the generic Windows icon, not the X1 icon I'm used to seeing. I found a youtube video that showed how to get it back and it seems to have worked.

Secondly, the updates from the Cakewalk website worked where as previously they hadn't so I'm hoping that maybe with the updates, X1 will behave now.

mjbphotos said:
Yes, Reaper is $60 to register, free to d/l full version and try it out.

Definitely open up your computer box and make sure there isn't a heatsink dust issue. I was hearing more fan noise than usual at times, so opened mine up to find a huge amount of dust in the fan over the heatsink. No fan noise since.
Click to expand...

Yes, even if it's not the culprit causing the Sonar issues, it's been TOO long since I've cleaned out the innards.
 
Well it did it again. Sitting here listening in on a conference call, going through my VST plug-in folder, deleting the stuff I never use and it crashed. I got the "SONARPDR.EXE has stopped working." I checked the Event Viewer per Tadpui's recommendation and found this:

Faulting application name: SONARPDR.exe, version: 18.0.5.533, time stamp: 0x4f4e651e
Faulting module name: ntdll.dll, version: 6.1.7601.17725, time stamp: 0x4ec49b8f
Exception code: 0xc0000374
Fault offset: 0x000ce6c3
Faulting process id: 0x8e4
Faulting application start time: 0x01d1a22308e04c1a
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Cakewalk\SONAR X1 Producer\SONARPDR.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
Report Id: 63b40672-0e18-11e6-bc4d-1c6f65abb064


Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: APPCRASH
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: SONARPDR.exe
P2: 18.0.5.533
P3: 4f4e651e
P4: StackHash_03fd
P5: 6.1.7601.17725
P6: 4ec49b8f
P7: c0000374
P8: 000ce6c3
P9:
P10:

Attached files:
C:\Users\Computer\AppData\Local\Temp\WERCD0F.tmp.appcompat.txt
C:\Users\Computer\AppData\Local\Temp\WERCE57.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml
C:\Users\Computer\AppData\Local\Temp\WERCE68.tmp.hdmp
C:\Users\Computer\AppData\Local\Temp\WERDD57.tmp.mdmp

These files may be available here:
C:\Users\Computer\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportQueue\AppCrash_SONARPDR.exe_6be88d356e86e6cbec8fc5db8b4b8f2cabc7cb80_cab_08dfddf0

Analysis symbol:
Rechecking for solution: 0
Report Id: 63b40672-0e18-11e6-bc4d-1c6f65abb064
Report Status: 6


I of course have no idea what this means... any thoughts?
 
What version of X1 are you running?

From memory, I believe there were several updates, culminating in X1d

When you reinstalled Sonar, did you go into the Registry and delete the 2 very important keys that need deleting prior to reinstalling?
 
Your computer is getting up there in years, sometimes failures at the motherboard / cpu / memory / hard drive level start presenting themselves in such a way. I had instability issues a long while back, similar to yours, and it ended up being a slowly failing hard drive. Replaced the drive and the crashes went away. I would suggest doing hardware diagnostics to be sure everything is operating properly. The reason apps like Sonar can trigger issues others do not is because it is rather robust, and utilizes many of the PC's resources simultaneously. That's also why there's stress test applications for testing gaming machines, to replicate the demands higher end games put on a system that casual PC use will never achieve. DAWs and games have a lot in common with the demands they put on a computer.

I also had issues with the LP64 app included with X2 causing random crashing/instability. Even with the X2 updates the problem persisted, so I ended up just using a different EQ plugin. X3 has been mostly great for me, fwiw.
 
Jonesey9 said:
What version of X1 are you running?

From memory, I believe there were several updates, culminating in X1d

When you reinstalled Sonar, did you go into the Registry and delete the 2 very important keys that need deleting prior to reinstalling?
Click to expand...

Jonesey9, thanks. I do have the X1d patch installed. But no, I didn't delete anything from the registry. Can you elaborate on what the "2 very important keys" are?

Pinky said:
Your computer is getting up there in years, sometimes failures at the motherboard / cpu / memory / hard drive level start presenting themselves in such a way. I had instability issues a long while back, similar to yours, and it ended up being a slowly failing hard drive. Replaced the drive and the crashes went away. I would suggest doing hardware diagnostics to be sure everything is operating properly. The reason apps like Sonar can trigger issues others do not is because it is rather robust, and utilizes many of the PC's resources simultaneously. That's also why there's stress test applications for testing gaming machines, to replicate the demands higher end games put on a system that casual PC use will never achieve. DAWs and games have a lot in common with the demands they put on a computer.

I also had issues with the LP64 app included with X2 causing random crashing/instability. Even with the X2 updates the problem persisted, so I ended up just using a different EQ plugin. X3 has been mostly great for me, fwiw.
Click to expand...

Pinky - you could ultimately be right. It'd be a shame since I had this box built just for studio usage and there are some weeks it doesn't even get turned on since I'm not recording all the time. The fact that Sonar 6 Studio seems to run fine and now more recently the trial of Reaper, my money is still on something with X1.

Thanks again guys for the input and help.
 
This is for a complete uninstall/reinstall of sonar

1) Completely un-install SONAR from your computer. This is normally done from Start | Programs | Cakewalk. This will not remove any of your project files or audio data.

2) Next you will want to open the Run Command

a) In Windows XP this can be done by going to Start | Run
b) In Windows Vista and Windows 7 this can be done by holding down the ‘windows’ key and pressing ‘r’

3) At the prompt type regedit and click OK.

***Backup your Registry before making edits - you do this by clicking the File menu, Export Registry File.

4) Now delete the following Registry keys:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\X1
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\X1

*Please note that this will remove any effects presets and key bindings you may have made in Cakewalk. You can back these up separately if you like, using Options|Key Bindings, Tools|SONAR Plug-in Manager, and Options|Colors. Hit F1 in these views for detailed instructions on how to do this.

5) Open the 'Run' command again. 6) Copy and paste the following into the prompt: %appdata%\Cakewalk

7) This will open your Cakewalk Application Data folder, right-click on the SONAR folder and choose rename.

8) Rename this folder SONAR X1 Backup.

9) Open the 'Run' command again and type msconfig Click OK and then click on the Startup tab at the upper right of the window that opens.

10) Uncheck all items listed, click OK, then restart your computer. You can always recheck those items again at a later time.

11) Then reinstall SONAR. Make sure to have any virus scanners disabled on installation. It is not required or recommended to turn off any windows services.
 
Nate74 said:
Pinky - you could ultimately be right. It'd be a shame since I had this box built just for studio usage and there are some weeks it doesn't even get turned on since I'm not recording all the time. The fact that Sonar 6 Studio seems to run fine and now more recently the trial of Reaper, my money is still on something with X1.
Click to expand...

Just don't dismiss what should be done as a regular maintenance thing anyway, especially as 'first step troubleshooting 101'. Any seemingly stability related issue should be first eliminated at the hardware level, *then* addressed as a possible software problem. It at least gives you peace of mind knowing your PC isn't in a (slow) deteriorating state, for it only to completely fail on you when it's least convenient. If the computer was built by Dell or some other OE manufacturer, it may have a time saving diagnostic partition built-in.
 
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