Recording from my CD Rom

R

Rusty K

New member
Hello everyone,

I've been absent for a couple of months due to a crisis in my home,broken pipes and subsequent flood damage. I am very happy to be back online finally and playing music instead of playing "handy-man".

I've got new gear/computer with a Sound Blaster Live card. I'm just getting into it so I'll report my results as time goes by.

Though I'm not sure this is the right forum, my question for the day is how best to record tracks from a CD. I've already accomplished this using line in and a good CD player but I thought I might get better results using my CD-ROM. Trouble is I haven't been able to accomplish this yet. I'm running Windows Millinium and I can copy to my library using the Windows media player but won't it compress the track? I would rather use my editing software, Goldwave, to record it.


Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Rusty K
 
Well you could extract the audio from the cd using something like Windac, but I think if you have a good quality audio cable direct from your CD the differences would be negligable. Out from your CD into the line in and use Goldwave to record.

"I'm running Windows Millinium and I can copy to my library using the Windows media player "

I don't quite follow this part. Are you trying to get a audio CD ie. CDA into your computer as a wav file?
 
Recording CD tracks

Emeric,

Thanks for responding. Yes I am trying to get tracks from A CD into my computer as a wav file. To my ear the line in from my CD player sounds good but it is converting the digital signal to analog and then back to digital. In theory keeping the signal digital, ie using my CD-ROM, to record from should be better, yes? I have followed all the instructions in my editing software help. When I click "play CD" the Windows media player comes up so it is the default audio player in my system. I'm so far unable to record from it though.

Rusty K
 
Unless there is someway of connecting the digital out on your cd-rom(if it has one) to a digital in on your soundcard I think http://www.windac.de/ may be your best bet.

I've never tried using that 2 pin connector on the back of most cd-rom drives - have no idea whether it will work or how it works. Pretty vague info on manufacturers sites.
 
Recording CD tracks

Emeric,

Excuse my computer ignorance but I thought the CD-Rom was already digitally linked internally to my soundcard. I'd appreciate you setting me straight on this point. If there is no digital connection then I'll just use my CD player.

Thanks again,
Rusty K
 
Your cd-rom is connected to your soundcard, but most likely by a 3 conductor audio cable. This audio running through this wire is analog and has already been converted by the CD-ROM's D/A. So unless you have a digital cable coming from the SPDIF output of your CD-ROM to a digital in on your sound card, it's analog.

Ok, a did a bit of web surfing. Although the connector labeled "digital" may be on the cd-rom, the internal components may or may not be there... great eh? You will need to find out what kind of CD-ROM your using and consult the manufacturers web page.

So, with the right cable you should be able to connect from the SPDIF output of the CD-ROM to the SPDIF input of the soundcard and maintain digital.
 
Exact Audio Copy

pglewis,

I was really bummed when I lost contact with you. I really appreciated the helpful, knowledgeable advice you were offering at the time. Also if I remember correctly I was trying to listen to some of your Mp3's on idrive. Idrive was not letting me get in though. I tried several times wiht no luck. Would you repost your info for me?

My CD-Rom is a Delta 52X. It has a digital out on the back but I believe only the analog is hooked up. I had a computer firm here in Austin build this system for me and the CD-Rom is not working properly, popping on all CD's. I'll be taking it in sometime this week for replacement so I'd like to have it set up for optimum copying.

I'm running Window's Millinium. Will EAC work with this system, The page mentioned only 95 and NT? The "compression factor" is what I was worried about with audio extraction but it seems EAC solves this with batch conversion back to wav.

I guess my question is: Do you think the digital link between my CD-ROM will improve my copying or does EAC make the difference negligible?

Very good To hear from you again,
Rusty K
 
RK -

Seems to me all you need is some CD ripper (extraction)software. I use Adaptec Easy CD Creator (lot's of people on this forum seem not to like Easy CD, but it doesn't matter as there are a billion other choices out there). Anyway, when you open Easy CD Creator there is a navigation menu in the main view (looks like Windows Explorer). You direct it to wherever your CD drive is (D:, E:, etc.) and highlight the track you want to extract (the tracks will be listed as Track 1, Track 2, etc.). You then choose "extract to file" from a pull down menu. In Easy CD you have a choice of extacting to a wave or mp3 format. Make your choice, name your file, and bingo you have a wave file (or mp3 depending on what you chose).

I should warn you, however, that not all CD-ROM's are created equal for extracting audio. I have two CD drives in my computer - an HP CD Writer and an NEC CD ROM. When I extract music from the NEC I get audible pops and clicks in the wave file. When I do the same process on the HP, the file is perfect. I don't know the technical reason for this (you would think that digits are digits, but apparently not).

Check around. As I said, what you want is CD ripper software. I'm sure there are probably even some freeware or shareware versions of this. You should not need to play with any cables, since you just need to read the CD and extract the information.
 
CD extraction

dac,

Thanks for your response although you succeeded in making me feel like a fool since I already have the Easy CD creator software. That seems to happen to me a lot here. I've only cut a couple of CD's so far and I wasn't even aware of the other capabilities.

By the way I've been very pleased so far with the ease of CD creation with this software and It sounds pretty good to my ears.

Thanks again,
Rusty K
 
Just make sure your CD ROM supports digital extraction for audio data (not all of 'em do :(). A lot of experienced folks love EAC because it verifies the ripped audio. I've never used it because I don't have the free disk space to spare (I spent hours reclaiming about 2 Gigs of space this weekend and more hours defragging). EAC should run under Win ME, but I'm not sure about it.

As for the songs, iDrive is practically useless lately, but I plan to find some reliable space soon. I post things in the clinic every now and then. I like "On the Road Again" a lot... I hope you get more time to do the music.
 
Exact Audio Copy

pglewis,

Thanks for your encouragement.

I'm still confused about this whole issue. If I have a digital output from my CD-Rom wouldn't that mean that it will support digital extraction? Digital extraction doesn't mean that my CD-ROM must be linked digitally to my soundcard does it? The sound card doesn't even come into play with extraction right?

Pg, when you get the time would you elaborate on the clearing of space on your hard drive and "defragging".
Do I remember correctly that you record in "24 bit"? Are you doing multi-trac computer recording? Is this why space is so criticle?

See you,
Rusty K
 
Not all CD ROM drives support digital extraction of audio data. CD audio data (red book audio) is stored differently than regular ol' data. You're correct that the soundcard doesn't come into play when using digital extraction. With a 100% successful "rip", you should end up with a bit-for-bit copy of the audio on the CD. The best bet is to check with the manufacturer. I'll see if I can dig up a good link somewhere.

Yeah, I record direct to the computer hard drive. I only have a single 13Gig hard drive, and I've only had 1-4 Gigs of free space for months. To free up space, I collect old projects and archive them to CD ROM (as regular data files) so I can load them again later, if needed.

I haven't moved up to 24 bits yet due to the extra drive space and processing overhead required. I had planned on adding a 2nd drive this summer, but decided to hold off. I want to install a removable bracket for my audio drive so I can just pull out a full drive and put in a fresh one. My computer case doesn't have any free slots in the front, however (the CD ROM and CD-RW drives fill my current case). I hope to upgrade my enitre system within the next year, and I'll get a case with enough slots for what I need. I'm just waiting for $300 1Gig CPU's to hit the market :D.

File fragmentation can become a real problem when working with audio. Audio performs best if the audio files are stored contiguously on the drive. As you add and delete files over time, the drive will start to have "holes" of free space where there is data physically before and after the "holes" (this is fragmentation). If the drive starts to store audio data in one of these holes but the data won't fit, then it will store as much of the data in the hole as it can and put the rest of the data someplace else. If the drive is severely fragmented, the data could get spread all around the drive's physical medium. In this case, the drive has to "jump around" just to read or write the file... this takes time as the drive has to find out where the next part of the file is and then physically move the head to that new position. Defragmenting the drive rearranges all your files so they are all contiguous and all your free space is in one big lump at the end of the drive. It can take several hours on a large nearly full drive, so I usually run it before bedtime.
 
Digital Audio Extraction

pglewis,

My computer was down for a day. I'm still needing some fine tuning.

My CD-ROM does allow digital extraction so I guess my Easy CD Creator software will do the ripping for me. I'll try today.

Yeah I defrag with the maintainance wizard automatically if I leave the computer on overnight. That's where I first learned just how fast my new computer is. I worked all day yesterday with wav files and I defragged in about 30 minutes. All my editing goes a lot faster also especially noise reduction. Speed can be nice.

Thanks for your help. Keep in touch. Which forum do you hang out at most?

Rusty K
 
I have the Platinum card and these are great consumer cards. It's very easy to record from your CD ROM. When you set up your sound card, you should have set it either to CD/analog or CD/digital.

From your main menu for the SBLive Launcer, you will find the audio control panel, listing the different types of inputs for listening to/and recording to.

On the right hand side of this panel, you will see a "record from" slider. At the top of that slider you will see a picture of the audio source it is currently set to. Click on that and select either CD/analog or CD/digital (depending on how you installed your card.
 
Be sure to listen for clicks and pops. Any software that doesn't verify the reads can't notify you if there were problems (it just grabs data on blind faith of good reads). Also, check out http://www.monkeysaudio.com for a great free lossless compression utility for .wav files. Guaranteed perfect decompression and it gets within .4% of the best lossless compression available (check the comparison table to see how loooooong it takes RKAU to get that extra .4%!).

The speed of defrag is more a factor of the drive's speed and how much data there is on the drive than the CPU. Mine was much faster when there was only 3-4G of data on it. Then I started recording.

I'm usually in recording techniques, here, mixing/mastering, and the MP3 clinic. But I've racked up over 700 posts in less than 5 months, so I'm obviously not too hard to find :D. E-mail might get buried, though. I'm on some lists and use it a lot for work-- there are high-volume days. Good luck, it sounds like your gettin' yer ducks in a row.
 
Audio Extraction

pglewis,

Yeah I just found out about the pops and clicks with my software. I get better results with a transfer from my CD player, an Onkyo.

Are you referring to compression for Mp3's? I use LAME. I don't really keep very much on my hard drive. I do things sort of like a project at a time, if there is something I need or want to save I burn a CD amd then dump everything. If you don't mind my asking, why must so much be kept on your hard drive?

Rusty K
 
sTigmuTha,

Hey thanks! My SBLive also has digital outs. Could you elaborate on the differences between Platinum and SBL? Also I'd like relate awierd thing that has been happening with my soundcard. Whenever I would unplug the speakers to use the jack for line out my sound would go away. I mean everyhing! Actually I was getting a signal but it was extremely faint. My computer builder is knowledgable about computers but not too hip about audio. We finally found out that by clicking on the speakers icon in SBL and by enabling 4speakers/front and back that would convert the little black jack on the soundcard,that is for rear speakers in surround, to a line out. Also CD must be clicked. When I need a line in I must go to speakers and click 2speakers and click line in. At least now I'm able to fucntion but it is still wierd how by simply unplugging and re-pluging a jack the sound would go away.

Does any of this make sense to you? I'd apperciate any light you can throw on this problem.

Also is anyone else having probs typing here?

Thanks,
Rusty K
 
The SB Live has several different lines, each suited to a different kind of computer user. The biggest difference with the Platinum card is that it is a dual card. One sits in a slot on the motherboard with a pass through cable connecting the second card in a front bay. On the front bay you have SPDIF in/out, microphone line 2 in, phones out, and midi in/out. Nice set up. Out the back you have two analog out, two in, plus a digital in/out interface that plugs into a module that has optical in/out and another set of SPDIF in/out. Nice set up.

I'm not sure as to what the problem is that you are having by loosing your sound on the out after unplugging your speakers. I assume you are setting a line to a mixing console or mixer. There is a setting in SB live that detects phones, and if they are plugged in to mute speakers, but that doesn't sound like it would effect the line out. However, make sure it isn't a phone out 1/8 jack that you are using.

When you say you were getting a faint signal, do you mean the volume on your sound card cut out or the signal you were receiving from the line out was faint? In the case of the former, it is most likely a software setting (whenever the environments change on the sound card it defaults back to lower settings). In the case of the latter, you most likely need an amplified power source. I will take a look at the creative website and look at the specs on that card and try and figure out what's going on. Feel free to email me for a closer to real time discussion about your card.
 
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