Recording keyboards direct into interface

N

Nizhny Tagil

Member
Hello,

I've searched around the Internet but have come across different answers.
I'd like to connect a keyboard's output into two instrument level inputs to have a stereo recording.
I know keyboards' outputs are line level, but I've read somewhere that they can be plugged into instrument level inputs.
Is this correct? As far as I know, instrument inputs are meant for a lower signal and using them for a line level signal would at least cause some distortion, if not even damage the inputs.
Thanks!
 
Well, switch the inputs on recording and note the difference in level. There is no ONE Level for either type of circuit
 
It may help if you tell us what the interface is, brand and model. Maybe the keyboard as well.
 
Actually, it's not my keyboard. A friend of mine has one, I think it's a Korg synth. I was wondering if we could plug it directly into my interface, to keep things simple.
This is the interface: ESI - UGM96. It has two Hi-Z input (one of which can act as a mic input), hence the question.
 
Nizhny Tagil said:
...
This is the interface: ESI - UGM96. It has two Hi-Z input (one of which can act as a mic input), hence the question.
Click to expand...
The FAQ on that site says it doesn't support line level inputs.

If you had access to a couple DI boxes with PAD switches you could probably use those to get the level down, but then you'd be faced with converting the XLR from the DI to unbalanced 1/4". Maybe time to think about an interface upgrade if that's possible.
 
keith.rogers said:
The FAQ on that site says it doesn't support line level inputs.

If you had access to a couple DI boxes with PAD switches you could probably use those to get the level down, but then you'd be faced with converting the XLR from the DI to unbalanced 1/4". Maybe time to think about an interface upgrade if that's possible.
Click to expand...

Since you mention PAD switches, wouldn't it be the same to lower the gain on the inputs and the output volume of the keyboard as well? It doesn't have to be pristine, as long as no damage occurs.
It's alright, anyway, it's mostly an experiment. I just thought I'd better ask to be sure, because line output into line input just seems logic, but I've been mislead by a couple of sources.
 
Nizhny Tagil said:
Since you mention PAD switches, wouldn't it be the same to lower the gain on the inputs and the output volume of the keyboard as well? It doesn't have to be pristine, as long as no damage occurs....
Click to expand...
Depends on whether the line level output is effected by the keyboard volume setting. I mean, it *might* work, but it could theoretically at least do damage to your interface. (Since it's in the FAQ, it makes me believe there's a reason for that being there.)

You could try taking a headphone out, using a stereo-mono Y connector, and begin with the headphone volume set to "zero" and very slowly dial it up until you get a record level signal. (Oh, yeah, what [MENTION=105765]garww[/MENTION] said!)
 
I should maybe mention that you can control the inputs' gain, just not on the interface itself, but through its software. Would I risk damaging the inputs even with the gain turned way down?
I'm sorry to ask so many questions, but I did my fair share of damage back in the day with ideas like this :).
 
If reactions in my advantage are deleted, and others are altered in my disadvantage, the i delete all my advices.
 
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If reactions in my advantage are deleted, and others are altered in my disadvantage, the i delete all my advices.
 
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42low said:
That's what i was talking about. Wasn't that his question?
My keyboard has a jack out which says 'headphone/aux out'.

Stereo that is, so constuct your own cable (splitter+cables or solder one like i did).
Click to expand...

Isn't the headphones out a line level output as well? I'm not sure I understand what the difference would be from the regular line output, in terms of impedance.
 
No, it is not line level. Line will have much higher resistance on the in and out. Headphone is, generally, low power and with very low resistance.

They is too cheap to include line jacks, and/or, there is no room
 
garww said:
No, it is not line level. Line will have much higher resistance on the in and out. Headphone is, generally, low power and with very low resistance.

They is too cheap to include line jacks, and/or, there is no room
Click to expand...

I see, honestly I didn't know that. It seems like a good solution, then.
 
No, it is a "OK" solution. No one uses the headphone jack when line out is available. Cheap is taking away your headphones when you want to record. Don't you deserve headphones and output jacks ?
 
garww said:
No, it is a "OK" solution. No one uses the headphone jack when line out is available. Cheap is taking away your headphones when you want to record. Don't you deserve headphones and output jacks ?
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, wasn't the headphones out supposed to be hotter than regular line output? Because I remember that some audio interfaces have built-in headphones preamp etc.
Anyway, I don't think it matters to have the headphones out available on the keyboard, because we'd be recording/playing through the computer and monitoring from the audio interface. Otherwise how would we hear the backing tracks/metronome?
 
If reactions in my advantage are deleted, and others are altered in my disadvantage, the i delete all my advices.
 
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Nizhny Tagil said:
Wait a minute, wasn't the headphones out supposed to be hotter than regular line out?
Click to expand...

No, a headphone output might be AS hot as a line output but 'Line Output' needs some qualification for 'prosumer' kit. 'Pro' level line (or Operating Level) is +4dBu (abt 1V rms) but with an accepted headroom capability of +22dBu, about 10 volts rms. Now, most headphones, regardless of impedance, have a sensitivity in the school yard of 100dBSPL for ONE (that IS 1.0) milliwatt of power (that IS 1/1000 watts) . So, connect (proper!) 600 Ohm 'pro' cans across +4dBu and you get 1.6mW. That is cookin' loud!

Plug in 32 Ohm 'pod' cans and you get some 30 mW giving (V approx.) close to 112dB SPL.

The consequence of all this waffle is that AI and kbd manfctrs know they can get away with a much lower drive level than +4dBu for headphone feeds (and the dead hand of the Nanny State is also felt here!) In fact since synths are 'digital' and run on a 5V supply the cans feed is likely no more than 3V rms tops. AIs have higher internal rails but it is a rare one that puts out more than +12dBu from its line stages and H/P will often be lower.

There is also a design issue. Headphone amps have to drive a very low impedance and can be shorted. This means the amplifiers are current limited and one of the cheapest ways to do that is to restrict the drive voltage available! Being cheapass designs, HP amps often deliver much more distortion than the line outputs.

Dave.
 
If reactions in my advantage are deleted, and others are altered in my disadvantage, the i delete all my advices.
 
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