Recording a group conversation in a noisy area: what equipment do I need?

C

Caroline

New member
Hiya,

I am doing research into how people talk together in a bar. I want to be able to put a few mikes around (unobtrusive but not invisible) and pick up what each person is saying. People talk over each other, and there is background noise, so I want to be able to have multiple tracks I can go back over and focus on each person at a time. I need to be able to transcribe really accurately what people are saying, even the bits where two or more people are talking at once.

I'm guessing I need a few mikes that I can leave at various points along the bar, and plug them into a hub of some sort, and then channel that into my computer, and then use some software to look at each track.

Any recommendations of what might do the job?

Thanks heaps,
Caroline
 
Sounds like you need some shotgun mics and an audio interface.

Google shotgun mics (did it for ya!!) and do some research. For the audio interface, it depends on how many mics you want to use. I can see where something like the Zoom H4N would be handy for this situation.

Amazon Website said:
•Built-in X/Y stereo mics record at either 90° or 120°
•Four channel simultaneous recording using built-in and external mics
•Digitally controlled, high-quality mic preamp for improved audio quality
•Large 1.9-Inch LCD screen and improved user interface for easy operation
•24bit/96kHz Linear PCM recording for pristine recording
Click to expand...


But the whole setup might be pretty intrusive in a bar environment and people might (or will) get annoyed if you are recording their conversations. I wouldn't like it if I was drunk and there were some mics around recording everything I say. There's that whole argument about the observer influencing the observed.
 
Let's try that again....

Sorry, Not sure how to reply individually. So Chili:

Thank you for your advice! Do you think I could combine a couple of shotguns with a couple of PZMs (ala the suggestion below)? Will they both plug into the interface at the same time?

And, yes, I need ethics approval for this project. I'll only record during times agreed on by the regulars (small country tavern) and only early in the night before things get rowdy. Also, they get power of veto over anything I publish, and everything is anonymised. Also, I'd put a sign on the door saying where the recording is taking place,and folks can choose to sit away from it. But you're right, it is an ethical dilemma which needs thinking on.

I'musing Conversation Analysis, if you're interested. Looks super closely at the minutiae of conversation,like pauses, and not really interested in the whole story that people tell. Focus is more on HOW they tell it. So only small sections of the talk are published. Which is why I need some really tight hardware.

Thanks very much for your help :)
 
Not sure I'm replying properly. So, PTravel, do PZMs have a low cut switch to cut out noise of fridges,fans,etc? And do you think they can be used to isolate (or hone in on) voices? And could I place one on the bar and not have it overshadowed by mechanical noise like drinks being placed on the bar?

Thanks!
:)
 
Use an array of omni mics and a computer program to apply delays which focus them on any given point. That's how intelligence agencies do it.
 
Thanks bouldersoundguy! Could you suggest a computer program that does this? I don't know how delays work or what they are.
 
Caroline said:
Let's try that again....

Sorry, Not sure how to reply individually. So Chili:

Thank you for your advice! Do you think I could combine a couple of shotguns with a couple of PZMs (ala the suggestion below)? Will they both plug into the interface at the same time?

And, yes, I need ethics approval for this project. I'll only record during times agreed on by the regulars (small country tavern) and only early in the night before things get rowdy. Also, they get power of veto over anything I publish, and everything is anonymised. Also, I'd put a sign on the door saying where the recording is taking place,and folks can choose to sit away from it. But you're right, it is an ethical dilemma which needs thinking on.

I'musing Conversation Analysis, if you're interested. Looks super closely at the minutiae of conversation,like pauses, and not really interested in the whole story that people tell. Focus is more on HOW they tell it. So only small sections of the talk are published. Which is why I need some really tight hardware.

Thanks very much for your help :)
Click to expand...

This makes me believe even more that shotgun mics are the answer. To get honest reactions from people, they needn't be intimidated by a mic near their conversation.

I think an audio interface and computer would arouse patrons interest. The less conspicuous your set up, the more at ease your subjects would be.

My suggestion: Two shotgun mics from across the room into an H4N. Keep the H4n close to you and don't intimidate your subjects.
 
The PZMs I've used don't have low-cut switches. I'm not aware of any microphone (other than a carefully-aimed shotgun) that can isolate voices -- that's something that the human brain does by actively processing lots of different cues. What the PZM (actually "boundary mike" -- PZM is a trademark of Crown) does is eliminate reflections. They're used as stage mikes for musical (placed along the edge of the stage on the floor), recording conferences and, probably, you've seen them in "higher end" business speaker phones. I used one for Skyping with my writing partner -- I don't have to worry about proximity to the microphone and, with Skype set on automatic gain, I can get up from my desk and walk over to my keyboard and partner can still hear me.

The problem with shotgun mikes is that they have to be carefully aimed (part of the reason for their name). This means someone will have to be actively positioning the mike which, I would think, defeats the purpose of your study. With a series of small PZMs placed unobtrusively along the bar and good mixing gear, you'd be able to choose the mikes closest to your subjects -- that, I think, is the best passive solution to honing in on one particular conversation, i.e. you could have your mixing gear set up out of sight.

As a side note, when I was working on my PhD in the 70s, I wanted to measure pauses, base frequency and frequency variation in a speaker for a specific purpose. There was nothing around to measure pauses, so I built something out of VU meter and a Radio Shack timer. Worked great!
 
Chili said:
I can see where something like the Zoom H4N would be handy for this situation.
Click to expand...

Just thought I should mention that it is possible to use 4 external mics with the H4n, whereas 2 of them can be phantom powered. In order to do this you'll need a dual XLR->minijack adapter and connect it to the line-in on the back of the unit. The built-in mics won't work when you do this but they're crap anyway. I've done it, works great.

Or better yet, the new Zoom H6 has 4 XLR inputs/preamps in addition to the built-in ones.

Check them out:

Zoom H4n

Zoom H6
 
Wouldn't you need permission from those recorded in order to use their private conversations for whatever reason?
 
bongoboy said:
Wouldn't you need permission from those recorded in order to use their private conversations for whatever reason?
Click to expand...

Was thinking the same thing. Also, of course, you are going to need permission from the bar owner. I reckon you have sorted this out?
 
one more thing.

What will you do with the recordings? If the end product is that they will ONLY be transcribed, then another insanely cheap alternative may come up.

There are cheap "gum" video cameras that are the size of USB stick or a pack of gum. While the so-called HD video of the typical under-$20 unit is not very good, the sound quality is surprising.

I picked up one on Amazon for $5.69!!! Once you figure then out, you find you can record for 2-3 hours using a micro-SD card on a charge. There are so small that they are attached to radio-controled hobbiest aircraft.

You could attach Velcro to them and stick them somewhere at the bar. I'd buy one as a test and then if it works, you have your solution.

The one I have uses vibrations, not lights to indicate what mode it is in, which I find much easier to use.

Another larger option is a $50 Sony micro-recorder. A lot depends on your budget and how you intend to use the audio.
 
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