Recording 30 Tracks Simultaneously?

Track30

New member
Hello all! I apologize if this is the wrong section. I'm new to this forum and have been out of recording for a few years now.

TL;WR (Too long, won't read): I'm looking at options and advice for a project I'm working on. The project requires the ability to simultaneously record 30 channels of audio to a computer. I need hardware and software advice or direction.

Here's a little bit of background on what we need. We will be digitizing analog tapes that hold 30 tracks of audio each. The tapes are long, up to ~14 hours, so the bandwidth and space requirements are quite high. I have never personally recorded more than 8 or so tracks at once, and definitely not for anything near this amount of time, so I'm looking for some help, direction, and advice regarding the hardware and software we will need to use. It is also important to note that the levels coming off of the tape heads are very low. We performed proof-of-concept testing recording only three tracks through a TASCAM US-2000 into a MacBook Air running REAPER. The available gain wasn't high enough, so we had to send each channel through a separate pre-amp before the TASCAM.

Our initial idea was to just compound the setup we have, picking up another few Tascam US-2000's (or similar 8-track audio interface), and recording on 4 different computers, and worrying about syncing audio later, with the hypothesis being that this would be the cheapest/easiest (initially)/most accessible option. I'm now trying to come up with cost estimates and researching available gear to see if this is the case, or if there is some solution where all 30 tracks can be recorded with a single computer and audio interface?

All of the audio being recorded is speech, so we don't need a high sampling rate.

Does anyone out there have experience recording this many tracks at once? And/Or recordings this long? Does anyone know of standalone pre-amps or audio interfaces with 16 or 30+ channels? Is it possible for a non-dedicated PC to record 30-tracks at once?

So far hardware-wise, I've come across the Apollo Duo as one of the higher-input (18-ch) devices available, but they're quite pricey and we would still require two (and possibly 30 channels of pre-amp, if the built-ins aren't powerful enough). There's also the DiGiGrid IOX, with 12 pre-amped line-ins, but they're even more expensive than the Apollo units and we would need three of them; Ditto for the 12-preamp/input Zen Studio.

As I'm writing this I've discovered the Orion 32, which allows for 32 channels over USB, but has no pre-amps (inputs are D-Sub). From what I've seen so far, the best option seems to be something like this with 32-channels worth of D-Sub-output pre-amps? This should allow us to use a single computer and not have to worry about syncing recordings afterwards (in theory, assuming the computer can handle recording 30 tracks simultaneously). Am I missing a better option?

I'd appreciate any input (heh), and if this is not the appropriate place to ask, any direction to where I might be able to discover such information would be great as well! Thanks in advance!
 
Is it possible for a non-dedicated PC to record 30-tracks at once?

I dump 24 tracks at once....but I'm not sure what kind of "non-dedicated" PC you are using.
Look...audio recording or playback with a computer is mostly a hard drive task (real time edits and plug-ins suck up memory and processor power). A slower drive can choke up at some point huge track counts.

I use all 10k RPM SCSI drives....but the SATA drives are good, even with 7500 RPM speeds.....not sure how well any slower drive can handle that many tracks. Also the HD buffers, read/write speeds are part of that...not just RPMs.

...and possibly 30 channels of pre-amp, if the built-ins aren't powerful enough...

Not really seeing why you need preamps just to transfer audio from a tape deck...?
I use pure converter boxes...no "all-in-one" stuff.
My tape decks are all Line level I/O...and the converters are also Line level I/O...all I ever do is switch the converter I/O between +4/-10 depeding on the source output level.
 
I dump 24 tracks at once....but I'm not sure what kind of "non-dedicated" PC you are using.

Look...audio recording or playback with a computer is mostly a hard drive task (real time edits and plug-ins suck up memory and processor power). A slower drive can choke up at some point huge track counts.

I use all 10k RPM SCSI drives....but the SATA drives are good, even with 7500 RPM speeds.....not sure how well any slower drive can handle that many tracks. Also the HD buffers, read/write speeds are part of that...not just RPMs.
We don't have a PC picked out for this task yet; one of the reasons for me making this thread is to figure out what we would need hardware-wise for that as well. The project supervisor wants to use a laptop for portability (we'll need to ship the whole setup to where the tapes are located), but I suspect that it would struggle, and would obviously be limited in capacity even with a fast-enough drive. I have seen claims, though, of live music shows being recorded; 26 tracks at 96kHz for 90 minutes on a vanilla MacBook Pro, which has me hopeful...

Not really seeing why you need preamps just to transfer audio from a tape deck...?
I use pure converter boxes...no "all-in-one" stuff.
My tape decks are all Line level I/O...and the converters are also Line level I/O...all I ever do is switch the converter I/O between +4/-10 depeding on the source output level.
The signal is not line-level in our case; it's coming straight from a tape head (no amplification), not from a commercial tape deck or anything.
 
I think the hardware is less important then the converters. A decent hardware (processing power is not that important for this task), but data conversion and throughput is important. Hard drive or SSD (not sure how much this is really important). I've done 14 on a cheap laptop (I mean low end, dual core, 5200 RPM HD) but at 44/16 with no issues. The capture resolution had a factor. Spoken voice, 44/16 should not be an issue for quality.

A laptop with a 7200 RPM SATA HD (I don't think a 10K drive is required) and good interface converters, either USB 2.0 or firewire (800), just recording, you should have no issues. If the converters are working fast enough, then it is pure data throughput which is dependent on the interface connection, then the hard drive, USB 2.0 or Firewire should handle this with no problem.

Once you have the tracks settled, data storage requirement would be your next task. That part should be easy to resolve, but make sure you plan for it.
 
Why not rent (or buy, if your budget and plans allow it) a Behringer X32? Or link 2 Presonus Studio Live boards together? It'll probably be much easier as it's the interface and you'll have total control of it all (that's not always a good thing, btw). Then just import the tracks to a DAW and then work from there (both boards act as interfaces or spend $100 for interface just for mixing purposes).

Bill L
 
That is actually an excellent suggestion ( Behringer X32). Takes a lot of unknown out of it. I was not aware of this piece of equipment, but it really does make sense.
 
I'm actually looking at the X32 rack for myself. It only has 16 channels, but it's 3 rack space, iPad interface to run all functions and records. I currently need to bring a mixer (Allen and Heath Mixwizard) and then I take the direct outs and plug them into two Zoom R24's with a USB link (as well as a bunch of other stuff that takes up way too much space). It's a lot of gear to bring but I get some great recordings.

Here's one from last 4th of July playing at my friends house (his drive way actually)

The Grill Daddys Songs | ReverbNation

Bill L
 
..
The signal is not line-level in our case; it's coming straight from a tape head (no amplification), not from a commercial tape deck or anything.
Well what then is the level coming off the unit? (and format for that matter-cabling, adapters?)
You can add plenty of gain in digital after the capture- as long as the sig to noise is adequate for your needs going in. '14 hours' on a reel -does that equal really slow IPS?
Does it have to be all tracks at once? Wouldn't you perhaps want to stop at reasonably bite sized chunks along the way and do saves for safety?
I'm just bringing this stuff up as it seems to be... vacant ;)
 
The signal is not line-level in our case; it's coming straight from a tape head (no amplification), not from a commercial tape deck or anything.

What tape deck is this that doesn't have, either built in or in a separate chassis, the electronics to amplify the signal off the head to (consumer -10dBv or pro +4dBU) line level? Make and model please.
 
Tascam X-48, if you can't buy rent one. A lot of guys that record live concerts use these and they are rock solid. LINK

Alan.
 
Why not rent (or buy, if your budget and plans allow it) a Behringer X32? Or link 2 Presonus Studio Live boards together? It'll probably be much easier as it's the interface and you'll have total control of it all (that's not always a good thing, btw). Then just import the tracks to a DAW and then work from there (both boards act as interfaces or spend $100 for interface just for mixing purposes).

Bill L
I'm reading about the X32 now and it sounds like it will do everything we need it to (assuming enough gain), and even works with Reaper. This was a good find, thank you Bill!

Well what then is the level coming off the unit? (and format for that matter-cabling, adapters?) You can add plenty of gain in digital after the capture- as long as the sig to noise is adequate for your needs going in.
I don't have a dB number for you or anything; I just know that when we were testing it on a subset of 3-tracks at once, using only the US-2000, even pegging the gain gave us a quite low signal (both in amplitude and perceived SNR).
'14 hours' on a reel -does that equal really slow IPS?
It's quite slow. 15/16 IPS.
Does it have to be all tracks at once?
Yes.
Wouldn't you perhaps want to stop at reasonably bite sized chunks along the way and do saves for safety?
I'm just bringing this stuff up as it seems to be... vacant ;)
Probably (I proposed doing it in blocks of 2 hours for sanity's sake, but the project head still wants to do each tape in one go... we'll see. :) ), but that won't change the hardware requirements as far as I can tell. We still need to record 30 tracks at once, that require a fairly large amount of amplification.

What tape deck is this that doesn't have, either built in or in a separate chassis, the electronics to amplify the signal off the head to (consumer -10dBv or pro +4dBU) line level? Make and model please.
As I said, it is not a commercial tape deck. There is no commercial tape deck that reads these tapes; we're reverse-engineering a one-off solution that's no longer around, starting with the tape heads. :)

Tascam X-48, if you can't buy rent one. A lot of guys that record live concerts use these and they are rock solid. LINK

Alan.

This is very interesting; It seems the X-48 would rid us of the need for worrying about what computer and software to run, which would be great. It looks like the we'd have to pick up two IF-AN24X cards to use it with analog inputs, so it ends up being quite pricey, though undoubtedly the most convenient. I will certainly be looking more into this option, as it's my favorite so far. Thank you, Alan!

EDIT: I just found out the X-48 would still require pre-amps for each channel; bummer...
 
I don't have a dB number for you or anything; I just know that when we were testing it on a subset of 3-tracks at once, using only the US-2000, even pegging the gain gave us a quite low signal (both in amplitude and perceived SNR).
Still if the very slow tape speed -split 30 tracks no less? :confused: equals sources with low s/n ratio to beging with, it could be with even decent convters goin in at quite low levels could still have better ('enough?) s/n, and finish with clean (and cheep!) digi gain?
So one might ask, what is 'quite low signal', and who's (which of the two's) 'precieved S/R'?
 
With the transfer, some systems have a file size limit. It may not be possible to record past a certain number of hours without stopping becuase of that.
 
Back
Top