Question for Mackie Blackbird owners RE: Gain levels

S

scichosysdom

New member
Hello,

So I picked up a Blackbird recently and the input seems very quiet to me. On my old Behringer input (and frankly all other mixers/inputs I've ever used), I'd just turn the gain straight up and levels would be good. On the blackbird, I have to really crank it to get the same levels. Off-hand, I'd estimate the gain knob has to be turned to about 3 o'clock or more just to equal the same level.

I'm running it in the exact same way as the old interface, so no cabling differences or settings changes or anything of that nature.

I have looked at the actual db readings on the knobs on both devices, but at this moment I don't remember well enough how they compare. I do know that it seems like I have to push the Mackie really hard to get good levels out of it whereas straight up is the default position for just about everything else.

Something else I've noticed is that the output seems to clip on these real bad, even though there's no evidence of clipping in the mixer. Not sure how to describe, but the output seems like it's pushing too hard (such that on playback I often hear the typical clipping pops when volume is up and it goes away when volume is decreased slightly) on the software side of things and the input isn't pushing hard enough. I checked the software mixer and even reset to default just to be sure.

Any other Blackbird owners out there have similar experience?

This is actually my third Blackbird that I've purchased used, the other two were both returned: one because it wouldn't connect to the computer (firewire just flashed on and off despite driver installs/reboot/etc) and the other was returned for the exact same low input level so I thought it was bad. But now this one is behaving the same and I'm wondering if that's just how these are. It seems off to me.
 
Anyone? Just looking for input from anyone who has ever plugged a mic into the 1/2 inputs on a blackbird. To me, it seems very quiet until you crank the gain knobs to about 3 o' clock. I bought it used and I'm wondering if I should be considering returning the unit before it's too late..
 
Hey,
I appreciate you're in a rush but so is everybody else. ;)
23 hours isn't a long time in forum land. Be patient, please! :)

When you say 1/2 inputs, do you mean 1/4" inputs? Are you plugging a mic into a 1/4" input?
If so, you're plugging into a line input which (here we go) isn't suitable for a microphone. It won't amplify the signal enough.
To do this you need to go through a microphone preamp which means you need to use a cable terminating in male XLR connector.

Those combo inputs may look like they have two ways of plugging into the same thing, but the circuitry behind TRS(jack) and XLR is not the same.

There are variants of line level out there - if it worked better or fine on a previous mixer, I can only guess that mixer was set up for consumer line level and maybe the new one is pro level?
The latter former expects a hotter signal, IIRC.
You might even find there's a software option (if there's a mackie control panel) to flick between -10 and +4 input. My motu has that per channel.
But still, if I've stabbed accurately just forget line level and get an XLR cable. That's the thing to do.


I think that'd probably explain all the rest of the issues you're having.
If I picked you up wrong, let me know and give us some more details, please. :)
 
I'm plugging XLR cables into inputs 1 and 2. They are mic'd up to a guitar cab in exactly the same manner as that which I used on my previous interface, which is to say the most basic configuration. Mic > XLR cable > Inputs 1 and 2. Previous interface was a Behringer mixer plugged into Delta 1010lt. So I've got everything set up as the gear is intended to be used. It's just the gain seems to be lacking with the Blackbird. The Behringer mixer only needed to be turned straight up, just like every other mixer I've ever used hence my confusion. Is the Blackbird's normal gain setting 3 o'clock? By normal I mean default setting wherein you achieve roughly correct levels as a baseline starting point.
 
Oh...1/2 = 1 or 2. lol. Sorry...Seems obvious now. :facepalm:

Hmm. I wonder what the preamp gain specs are for the blackbird. Would be interesting to compare to the Behringer.
 
I am wondering if the blackbird has the "-10 and +4 input" switch but I haven't seen anything of the sort yet. But like I said I already tried the reset on the software mixer to defaults so I would be surprised if they would default the "super channel" inputs to a non-standard setting.

I just kind of thought straight up was a universally accepted normal gain position since every mixer I've used puts out good levels at that setting. I have a Mackie 32.8 mixer which has good level at the straight up position as well.

The Behringer I was using was the UB802. Looks like the dial goes from 10-60. So as long as the numbers increment equally, straight up would be like 35ish.

The Blackbird level straight up is 30. I'm having to crank it to 45-50 before the level is the same as recordings made with the Behringer.

The 8-Bus looks to range from 0-48, so straight up is somewhere around 30.

So yeah, all indications are that straight up is fairly universally 30db, which seems to be a good starting point after plugging into any mixer. Which is why I'm wondering why the Blackbird seems so much quieter in comparison.

Thanks for the discussion, I hadn't bothered to check the actual db settings per gain knob yet and now I know.
 
If you're not using 1/4 inputs (which is good) the -10 or +4 thing goes out the window.
It only applies to line level inputs.

What model Behringer did you have?
The Mackie, apparently, has 60db gain per channel.
 
See my previous comment, I just looked up the specs and confirmed that most mixers seem to be around 30db with the knob pointing straight up. To get the same out of the blackbird I have to crank it to 45ish.
 
Hmmm, Ok. Fair enough.

I just spotted that you had a delta 1010 in the chain with the behringer so that could certainly be something to do with it.
If it added any gain to the chain, or if it expected a -10 line level and got a +4, that would make your difference.

Doesn't explain the further issues you're having with clipping/noises though.

Is there any mackie mixer software that would give you an indication of signal levels coming in, before anything gets to meddle with it?
If not, open your DAW, set up a single channel, keep channel and master faders at unity, and make sure there are no processes or effects in play.
Set your input gain (whilst playing your instrument or singing or whatever) and aim so that the loudest peaks are still a good 10db or more clear of clipping in the DAW.
Not record and see how that sounds.
 
This..Mackie Onyx Blackbird

Suggests the unit is a bit "firewire fussy"? The writer also says he could have done with a bit more gain but 60dB is quoted and that is all you get from most AIs? Mackie telling porkies?

Dave.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Yeah, that's a consideration alright!
Click to expand...

I have long thought that specifying interface mic gain as so many dBs is not useful?
What we really need to know is the sensitivity, that is how many mV produces say -18dBFS in a DAW at max setting.

The output of most dynamics is well known to be between 1 and 2.5 mV/Pa so we would get an instant picture of how useful the AI would be.

Dave.
 
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