Partitioning Macintosh HD

philbagg

Just Killing Time
I have an iMac (late 2006 generation) with a 120gb internal hard drive. I'd like to partition the internal HD into two 60gb (or maybe 40 - OS/80 - Data, depending on your recommendations). I'd like to do this so that my Pro Tools software and data aren't being read from the same drive (which I believe is a bad idea).

So, few questions:

How do I do this? I'm running Leopard (10.5.8)
Will I lose my data? Is backing up necessary?
Is this pointless?

Thanks.
 
Okay, I think I managed to partition it, but now I'm REALLY confused.

I removed the Time Machine backups (I backup manually and didn't find a need for it).

I realised my internal HD was 130GB, but now that I've done the partition I have a 60GB "Audio Drive", and a 170GB "Macintosh HD"...

Is the computer making some kind of mistake or did I magically almost double the size of my hard drive :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Okay...... Went into Disk Utility again and it has "230GB" in the name, so I'm assuming it was always that size and I never figured it out. Either way, I'm delighted that I have a larger hard drive than I thought :D

But my earlier question still stands: Is this pointless?

I know for a fact having two separate drives (physically two drives, not one drive partitioned), using one for your DAW and one for your data is a much better and efficient way to operate. But is one drive partitioned into Software and Data an equally (or even just better) way to operate? :confused:

Sorry for babbling on :D
 
you want to put pontoons on your hard drive?

My understanding is that you can't partition a drive without completely erasing everything on it. [THIS IS NOT TRUE - SEE POST #8 BELOW]

If you go to Disk Utility, and select a disk drive in the list on the left, then hit the partition tab up top, you're on the partition dialog box. I only did this after first erasing the hard drive. I don't think you can do it with stuff already on the hard drive. If there's data on the hard drive, the boxes where you select the sizes of the partitions are grey'd out.

I have 2 hard drives in my Mac, and one is partitioned into an OS X and an OS 9 hard drive. I wanted the two different OS's to be partitioned from each other. I end up having 3 hard drive icons on my desktop. I still prefer OS 9 for some things.

As far as if it's better to have one partition for software (i.e. the Cubase app), and the other for data (i.e. Cubase songs) I've heard that it's better to have the two on separate hard drives, and partitions do act like separate hard drives.

My take on this is that it might have mattered in 1999 but today it doesn't make a big difference.

I do think it is better with my system because it's easy to see that having multiple OS's in one partition is bogus. For instance, when you do an upgrade, which OS would be upgraded?

Here's what it looks like on my Mac:
PARTITIONS.jpg
 
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Cheers Dinty, much appreciated :)

Edit: I didn't have to format the hard drive, nor did it erase any data
 
Cheers Dinty, much appreciated :)

Edit: I didn't have to format the hard drive, nor did it erase any data

So you were able to partition it without erasing the hard drive?

I just tried it and it didn't look possible... when I selected a hard drive (my Maxtor which isn't partitioned) the "partition" tab was not available... :confused:
 
So you were able to partition it without erasing the hard drive?

I just tried it and it didn't look possible... when I selected a hard drive (my Maxtor which isn't partitioned) the "partition" tab was not available... :confused:

Did you select the main hard drive, or one of the sub-volumes (the ones kinda pushed to the right on the menu to the left :confused: ?)

Actually, what OS are you running? Tiger? Leopard?
 
I'm running OS 10.4.11

Hmm, just checked it out and yes, I can partition my unpartitioned Maxtor hard drive (without erasing it!) but the one that's already partitioned cannot be messed with it seems.

Good to know you can do that - thanks! :)
 
partitioning vs external firewire drive

Hey all, i'm new to home recording and i've been reading all the threads on partitioning vs external firewire drive and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer. I've just purchased a new iMac with a 1TB hard-drive and i am considering getting an external firewire drive to save all of my audio data (wav files) on when i begin recording. If i do this will i still need to partition my hard-drive at all (eg: for backing up data) or would that not be necessary. If i should partition my hard-drive, how many partitions would I need. I also use imovie so i've already imported about 40gb of video footage, should i keep this on a seperate partition too. Would the following example be ok?

O/S - partition of 20GB
video footage - partition of 50gb
Audio files - partition of 100GB
back up - partition of 20GB

Another question - audio information is recorded as .wav files right? What is midi information recorded as, and do i need to keep these midi files in a different location to the audio files?

thanks in advance for any advice offered,

Richard
 
O/S - partition of 20GB
video footage - partition of 50gb
Audio files - partition of 100GB
back up - partition of 20GB

Partitioning the internal startup drive is a waste of your time. It might be a good idea if you run OS9 and OSX from the same drive, but otherwise there's simply no advantage. And OSX is quite good at defragmenting. By partitioning your drive, only the system partition will be defragmented.

A backup partition on your startup drive is a Very Bad Idea™. If the drive fails, your backup is also gone. If the system fails, it might eat your backup too.

Get a big external drive for audio files and backup. Use Time Machine, it's meant to be a running backup. Don't use Carbon Copy Cloner for backup. It's not a backup program. It's an excellent way to clone your startup disk, but it's not a backup solution.
 
Hey Philbagg, Partioning a hard drive to create two separate logical drives does not gain the advantage you are looking for. You want two separate, physical hard drives. The reason is so your data and O/S are not sharing the same read/write heads and disk buffers. With a partitioned drive, you still have one physical drive doing all the work for both O/S and audio stream.

Today's hard drives are really fast and maybe one will be okay for you, partitioned or not. Throughput speed to your drive will limit your track count. By how much depends on your system.

peace,

Edit: Okay, I see this is an old thread. maybe not pertinent anymore.
 
Hey Philbagg, Partioning a hard drive to create two separate logical drives does not gain the advantage you are looking for. You want two separate, physical hard drives. The reason is so your data and O/S are not sharing the same read/write heads and disk buffers. With a partitioned drive, you still have one physical drive doing all the work for both O/S and audio stream.

Today's hard drives are really fast and maybe one will be okay for you, partitioned or not. Throughput speed to your drive will limit your track count. By how much depends on your system.

peace,

Edit: Okay, I see this is an old thread. maybe not pertinent anymore.

I actually just gave the same advice AND reasoning behind it to someone else :p

But cheers :)

As for the question asked about separate hard drive vs external:

For running audio off one drive and the software off another, you NEED an external/separate drive to your system drive to get any of the benefits for the reasons Chili stated (the drive heads sharing the workload).

For backups, you'll want a separate hard drive, NOT a partition. If the drive dies, all the partitions go with it, defeating the purpose. However, it doesn't hurt to have all of your data on a separate partition anyway (whether you back up to a different hard drive or not). The reason is if your system fucks up, or you need to reinstall the OS, you don't have to worry about moving your files off the system drive, wiping the drive and starting again. You can just wipe the system partition, and your files are already on another partition that doesn't get touched, even though it's on the same drive.

Eh, I think that makes sense.
 
Okay...... Went into Disk Utility again and it has "230GB" in the name, so I'm assuming it was always that size and I never figured it out. Either way, I'm delighted that I have a larger hard drive than I thought :D

But my earlier question still stands: Is this pointless?

I know for a fact having two separate drives (physically two drives, not one drive partitioned), using one for your DAW and one for your data is a much better and efficient way to operate. But is one drive partitioned into Software and Data an equally (or even just better) way to operate? :confused:

Sorry for babbling on :D

I don't see a reason to use two partitions or two drives, generally speaking. Your audio app is resident in RAM, the OS is resident in RAM, and the only stuff that's being loaded from or written to the drive is your audio data. The only way it should make any noticeable difference is if you don't have enough RAM and your machine is paging to the hard drive frequently (in which case you should get more RAM). Otherwise, it shouldn't make even one track difference in your track count between using one drive or two, one partition or two.

As an exception, however, if you're doing a lot of stuff with virtual instruments, it may be useful to put the VI samples on a separate drive from your audio data (not a separate partition) because those files presumably are getting read during the normal course of playing and recording audio.

As for having it on a separate volume to make reinstalling easier, that hasn't been important for a long time. At least in recent versions of Mac OS X, every install is an "archive and install", so the old OS is moved aside, the new one installed, and everything that isn't part of the OS gets put back the way you left it (with the possible exception of third-party drivers). It's about as painless as you can get. The days of needing to wipe your system drive and reinstalling from scratch are but a distant memory.

And in the unlikely event that you need to wipe and reinstall because of filesystem corruption or something, that's what Time Machine backups are for. You wipe the drive, stick in a Leopard or later install disc, tell it to restore from the backup, and you're back in business.

I used to partition drives all the time. I no longer find it useful unless I'm testing beta OS builds or something. It just doesn't provide much benefit, but creates a lot of headaches in terms of free space management.

BTW, if you don't have a Time Machine backup drive, you should get one. It's so easy to use that you'd be crazy not to. Using your main drive as the backup drive, as noted previously, is pretty much a waste of disk space. About $70-75 bucks will get you a 1TB external that's more than big enough for backups. Don't use it for anything other than backups. Your backup drive must be more than double your main drive's total capacity or else you won't be able to use it usefully as a backup drive.

Just my $0.02.
 
Audio processing streams a LOT of data. Drives need to give you quick, uninterrupted access. Separate dedicated drives help a lot to let you stream more tracks with less problems. The goal is SMOOTH UNINTERRUPTED THROUGHPUT of data so you wont get clicks, pops or worse, dropouts. Your sample libraries and audio projects should be on separate drives so they can stream without interruption.

Here's how you want your system set up:

C: (Boot) OS, apps and vsts - your applications and vsts are generally only loaded once and don't hit the disk thereafter HOWEVER your OS will need to do occasional housekeeping work and you don't want this activity to step on the recording/playback stream.
(order of secondary drives doesn't matter)
Most systems reserve the D: drive for DVD/CDs.
E: Sample libraries
F: thru Z: Music projects and misc data

Partitioning will NOT help you and is, in fact, bad. The arm has to stop what its doing on one partition, lift up and go alllllll the way across the disc to the other side, set down to do its job and then go alllllllll the way back again EVERY time the OS or an app needs to do housework. This mechanical movement is GLACIAL in computer terms and will lead to pops, clicks and dropouts in your audio. AVOID PARTITIONING and go to SEPARATE DRIVES. (the ONLY reason to use partitioning is if you BIOS doesn't support large disks or organizing a disk and then I would still avoid it as partition maps can go bad - or hacked - and then you lose EVERYTHING.)
 
Audio processing streams a LOT of data. Drives need to give you quick, uninterrupted access. Separate dedicated drives help a lot to let you stream more tracks with less problems. The goal is SMOOTH UNINTERRUPTED THROUGHPUT of data so you wont get clicks, pops or worse, dropouts. Your sample libraries and audio projects should be on separate drives so they can stream without interruption.

Actually, audio work rarely even gets close to being I/O bound these days. Even a relatively slow 5400 RPM laptop drive should be doing 20 MB/second of throughput when reading continuous stripes of contiguous data (which audio tends to be, to a large extent). That's comes to about 70 tracks at 96 kHz/24-bit.

Most people never even approach that limit. And that's with some of the slowest drives on the market. With a 7200 RPM desktop drive (or faster)... you get the picture. Now if you're using a 10-year-old drive on a crappy bus like USB, it's pretty easy to hit a disk performance wall, but that is in part because the older drives are much slower than modern drives and in part because USB is a CPU pig when you're using it for disk I/O.

Either way, you shouldn't ever be able to hit a disk-related performance stall with modern machines with recent internal hard drives unless your DAW is doing something stupid or you don't have enough RAM for proper disk read-ahead. Keep in mind that a 4 GB machine can cache (in RAM) almost eight *minutes* of 32 channels of 24/96 audio, ignoring the space taken up by the app and the OS....

It's just not a problem. The disk throughput isn't high enough to matter, and in the unlikely event that it is, just crank up your cache size and let your DAW use all that RAM for something useful.


Here's how you want your system set up:

C: (Boot) OS, apps and vsts - your applications and vsts are generally only loaded once and don't hit the disk thereafter HOWEVER your OS will need to do occasional housekeeping work and you don't want this activity to step on the recording/playback stream.
(order of secondary drives doesn't matter)
Most systems reserve the D: drive for DVD/CDs.
E: Sample libraries
F: thru Z: Music projects and misc data

You do realize the original poster is talking about a Mac, right? What is this MS-DOS C: noise I'm seeing? :D
 
You do realize the original poster is talking about a Mac, right? What is this MS-DOS C: noise I'm seeing? :D

Well, we kinda switched topics to the benefits of separate hard drives for audio vs. partitions ;)

...and because he secretly knows that I much prefer Windows :D
 
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